2022-23 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

[Deebo]

Ottawa, Detroit and Montreal got better.  Tampa, Florida, Toronto got worse.  Buffalo and Boston stagnate although Boston is probably worse due to injury.

I don?t love the moves we made but this is salary cap hockey.  Good teams get worse while bad teams benefit.

I would put Toronto in the stagnate column.

 

[bustaheims]

Ottawa, Detroit and Montreal got better.  Tampa, Florida, Toronto got worse.  Buffalo and Boston stagnate although Boston is probably worse due to injury.

I don?t love the moves we made but this is salary cap hockey.  Good teams get worse while bad teams benefit.

I would put Toronto in the stagnate column.

Same. I don't think the Leafs moved the needle much either way this offseason, so far.

 

[Frank E]

Ottawa, Detroit and Montreal got better.  Tampa, Florida, Toronto got worse.  Buffalo and Boston stagnate although Boston is probably worse due to injury.

I don?t love the moves we made but this is salary cap hockey.  Good teams get worse while bad teams benefit.

I would put Toronto in the stagnate column.

Same. I don't think the Leafs moved the needle much either way this offseason, so far.

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

 

[Frank E]

I know we kind of rehash this every summer, but these Cup champs always seem to have some guys significantly outplaying their contract AAV.

Nichushkin, MacKinnon, Newhook, Byram, and Kadri of course.

Which Leafs do we think can do that this season?

 

[Deebo]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone,

Our 9th and 13th highest player in SH/TOI per game is gone.

the goaltending is still a question mark,

The goaltending was really bad last year, so even if it is a question mark, its can't really be that much worse.

and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

I don't see how this makes the team worse.

 

[bustaheims]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

 

[Frank E]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone,

Our 9th and 13th highest player in SH/TOI per game is gone.

the goaltending is still a question mark,

The goaltending was really bad last year, so even if it is a question mark, its can't really be that much worse.

and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

I don't see how this makes the team worse.

I read with disbelief that Mikheyev and Kase were only the 4th and 5th highest forwards in SHTOI/game.  Point taken.

The Engvall thing is more about how much cap space he eats up if the arbitrator gets fancy, that's all.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone,

Our 9th and 13th highest player in SH/TOI per game is gone.

the goaltending is still a question mark,

The goaltending was really bad last year, so even if it is a question mark, its can't really be that much worse.

and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

I don't see how this makes the team worse.

I read with disbelief that Mikheyev and Kase were only the 4th and 5th highest forwards in SHTOI/game.  Point taken.

The Engvall thing is more about how much cap space he eats up if the arbitrator gets fancy, that's all.

Engvall won't get to arbitrator is my guess. I'm a huge Mikheyev fan but he never started on the PK kill. He was always secondary. Yes they will miss him but no way you can pay him 4.75M. Just like Hyman last year. Funny thing, many thought the Leafs would be worse with him gone but the opposite happened. Matthews and Marner had career years, the Leafs PK improved and they set a record for points in a season.
I for one think the goaltending will improve next season. If the Leafs truly believed in Jack, they would have signed him. Anyway the Leafs have a lot of depth on D now so we'll see what Dubas does with the forward group here. Lots of time till the start of the season and as it stands right now, I don't see the Leafs being worse. I think the bottom 6 is and will be better then last season by Oct.

 

[herman]

Offseason isn't done yet: market is locked up on Kadri/Klingberg decisions.

Also, the opening day lineup is not a big deal and never ever looks like the lineup going into the playoffs.

 

[bustaheims]

I also wonder about whether having a fully healthy offseason will help Tavares rebound some this season. Obviously, it's not going to do a ton to make him a better skater or anything, but maybe it helps keep him more consistent. Also, the psychological difference could have an impact, as well, as he won't feel like he's playing catch up, which he likely did this past season.

 

[Kin]

It's always going to be frustrating when the team can't make any significant upgrades after an unsuccessful season and sort of magnify the negatives of the situation they're in but realistically that was always going to be the case because of the cap situation they were in. Even the people who hoped the team would make bigger changes along the lines of trading Muzzin/Holl/Kerfoot I think would be being a little far-fetched if they thought that would result in drastic improvements vs. just sort of reshuffling some less important pieces and hoping you come out ahead on aggregate.

 

[Joe S.]

I don?t know, call me crazy, but after some initial skepticism and ambivalence I find myself excited about the goaltending for next season.

And the losses so far are very, very meh. I may be in the minority but Mikhayev is ?just a guy? to me. His contract is lunacy, I wish him the best, but I don?t care one bit that he?s gone. And Kase? He was fun, but again, completely replaceable.

 

[Bullfrog]

It's always going to be frustrating when the team can't make any significant upgrades after an unsuccessful season and sort of magnify the negatives of the situation they're in but realistically that was always going to be the case because of the cap situation they were in. Even the people who hoped the team would make bigger changes along the lines of trading Muzzin/Holl/Kerfoot I think would be being a little far-fetched if they thought that would result in drastic improvements vs. just sort of reshuffling some less important pieces and hoping you come out ahead on aggregate.

I don't want to start something, but I think that's only true considering playoff success. This team was flat out awesome.

 

[Bender]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

 

[rdowdall]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I think that is what stands out to me.  As some have alluded too, the development pipeline needs to start paying off.  If it doesn't then this team is in trouble as far as progressing is concerned.  Sandin and Liljegren need to contribute as major pieces and the next wave up needs to be able to play contributing roles.  If they don't get that, then this team can't be any better than what they are now.  It's not a talent problem, it's a problem that they need to have cheap role players that can outperform the role players on other teams who may or may not be more expensive.

 

[ZBBM]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I'm with you but I have never been excited by Robertson.  I hope I'm wrong.  Seems to me the door's wide open for him.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I'm with you but I have never been excited by Robertson.  I hope I'm wrong.  Seems to me the door's wide open for him.

I originally thought Robertson had a lot of upside but that feeling is sort of fading with him. I?m more interested in see what Knies can bring to the team . Hopefully we see him at some point closer to playoff time this year.

 

[Bender]

I'm leaning a little more in the "got worse".  A couple of our good PKers are gone, the goaltending is still a question mark, and we still don't know what they're going to have to pay for Engvall, right?

There's a couple other guys on the roster who should be able to make up most of the PK issues and, overall, I can't see the team's goaltending performing worse than they did last season (they might not be much better, but, last season, the Leafs had a putrid .899 Sv%). Engvall's contract doesn't really impact the current talent level on the roster, either.

On the flipside, the 4th line should be a little less ineffective, they get a full season of Giordano, and hopefully, some progression from the younger guys on the roster. All of it together, to me, feels like it balances everything out.

I think this is where we hope that a couple of our Marlies can fill out the roster. Really hoping this is Robertson's year and maybe Steeves or Anderson.

I'm with you but I have never been excited by Robertson.  I hope I'm wrong.  Seems to me the door's wide open for him.

I originally thought Robertson had a lot of upside but that feeling is sort of fading with him. I?m more interested in see what Knies can bring to the team . Hopefully we see him at some point closer to playoff time this year.

This strikes me as shiny new toy syndrome a bit. I think if he can stay healthy he's got a shot. He put up almost a PPG in the A when he's played, and he played underage. Hopefully he can be better and knowing when to use his body and when to not.

 

[Kin]

I don't want to start something, but I think that's only true considering playoff success. This team was flat out awesome.

It's a fair point and usually I like to think of myself as being very much opposed to the idea of only playoff success mattering but in this case I feel pretty confident that if you asked just about anyone associated with the team if they think it was a successful season you'd get a resounding no. Even if you just want to take the perspective of there wasn't even a lot of growth in their regular season success, going from 1.38 ppg to 1.40.

At the very least, even if you don't think playoff success is the be all and end all I think a bare minimum for "success" in measuring a season should be taking a significant step forward.

 

[Bill_Berg]

I'm not interested in reg season results. I really wish I was though!