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2024-25 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion

cabber24 said:
Sundin was hurt in that playoffs and had almost 100 PIM during the regular season.

No players that have won so little have received the contracts the Leafs hand out. They've earned their criticism, it's called accountability.
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I agree with this statement.

It's ironic that when Dubas started, 17 players were drafted that year and trading Lily yesterday signifies the second last remaing player of that cohort (Holmberg still remains from those 17 draft picks)

"Lily" is a good name for the roster Dubas architected.

I hope we can move on from "Sweet 16" next and close the door on that soft period of entitlement.

When I said Toronto culture is "too nice"..... I mean that it is afraid to hurt feelings and fire guys and hold them accountable until it's way too late. Dubas, Keefe and Marner should have been dust by 2021. At least 2 out of 3. But ownership/management didn't do it when the window was open, and now we won't get anything for Marner....we have crazy high elite contracts and our cupboard is bare of draft picks getting rentals for first round eliminations under Dubas.

But on the very positive note.... Treliving is going in the right direction over the past 18months. I think Leafs may be the second heaviest team in the NHL this year. It's really just the Core4 that needs to be broken up and rebuilt.

Will Rogers/Shanahan have the balls to let Marner walk and use the cap space for more grit and heart?
 
Ozzie said:
I agree with this statement.

It's ironic that when Dubas started, 17 players were drafted that year and trading Lily yesterday signifies the second last remaing player of that cohort (Holmberg still remains from those 17 draft picks)

"Lily" is a good name for the roster Dubas architected.

I hope we can move on from "Sweet 16" next and close the door on that soft period of entitlement.

When I said Toronto culture is "too nice"..... I mean that it is afraid to hurt feelings and fire guys and hold them accountable until it's way too late. Dubas, Keefe and Marner should have been dust by 2021. At least 2 out of 3. But ownership/management didn't do it when the window was open, and now we won't get anything for Marner....we have crazy high elite contracts and our cupboard is bare of draft picks getting rentals for first round eliminations under Dubas.

But on the very positive note.... Treliving is going in the right direction over the past 18months. I think Leafs may be the second heaviest team in the NHL this year. It's really just the Core4 that needs to be broken up and rebuilt.

Will Rogers/Shanahan have the balls to let Marner walk and use the cap space for more grit and heart?
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If Marner walks it's probably due to a lacklustre playoffs and Shanny will be fired. Shanny's future is tied to Marner to some degree.
 
Ozzie said:
I agree with this statement.

It's ironic that when Dubas started, 17 players were drafted that year and trading Lily yesterday signifies the second last remaing player of that cohort (Holmberg still remains from those 17 draft picks)

"Lily" is a good name for the roster Dubas architected.

I hope we can move on from "Sweet 16" next and close the door on that soft period of entitlement.

When I said Toronto culture is "too nice"..... I mean that it is afraid to hurt feelings and fire guys and hold them accountable until it's way too late. Dubas, Keefe and Marner should have been dust by 2021. At least 2 out of 3. But ownership/management didn't do it when the window was open, and now we won't get anything for Marner....we have crazy high elite contracts and our cupboard is bare of draft picks getting rentals for first round eliminations under Dubas.

But on the very positive note.... Treliving is going in the right direction over the past 18months. I think Leafs may be the second heaviest team in the NHL this year. It's really just the Core4 that needs to be broken up and rebuilt.

Will Rogers/Shanahan have the balls to let Marner walk and use the cap space for more grit and heart?
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Brian Burke, is that you?

It's a fun narrative. Hire a GM in 2018, and then fire him after 3 (winning) seasons. Hire an up and coming coach, then fire him after his first full season in the job.

How could Shanahan have missed it.
 
bustaheims said:
Let's also not forget, this came after years of the Toronto media and a portion of the fanbase wanting to move Sundin for someone tougher/gritttier/more like Gilmour/etc.

If this team and this fanbase has run anyone out of town, it's skilled players that don't have an obvious physical edge to their game.

I mean, just look at the narratives around Nylander and Marner in recent years.
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I've been thinking this. The Marner stuff now reminds me a lot of the people back in the day who really wanted Sundin to be Lindros and couldn't let go of Gilmour/Clark. Right down to statements about how the Leafs would never win with Sundin as Captain, and then declaring themselves correct every time the Leafs were eliminated from the playoffs.
 
herman said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1852323513484419481
Happy Activation and Conditioning Loan Day to all who celebrate.

Their cap hits are active now, but not the roster slot. A couple of current roster players will have to be waived (or injured or traded) within 6 days.
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They haven't been activated. This is an LTIR conditioning loan, hence the 6 day/3 game limit. They're still very much on LTIR and aren't guaranteed to be activated once the loan expires (though, in all likelihood, they will be), as they have not been determined to be ready for NHL game action yet.

Also, for clarity, their cap hits were never inactive. That's not how LTIR works.
 
bustaheims said:
They haven't been activated. This is an LTIR conditioning loan, hence the 6 day/3 game limit. They're still very much on LTIR and aren't guaranteed to be activated once the loan expires (though, in all likelihood, they will be), as they have not been determined to be ready for NHL game action yet.

Also, for clarity, their cap hits were never inactive. That's not how LTIR works.
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Thanks! that explains the different limit than I was expecting (14 day)
 
It's tough to say because he was such a good story last season but Benoit's easily been our worst defenceman so far this season. Worst CF% at 45.4% (Rielly is the next lowest at 52%). Worst xGF% at 41.3% (OEL is next at 51.6%). Those are pretty massive gaps. I never like to read too much into these numbers at 4-on-5 considering the sample size but his numbers there also stand out as worse than Tanev/McCabe/OEL.

With Hakanpaa's debut on the horizon (however long that lasts) it's clear he should be the odd man out I think, at least at first. Can keep the McCabe-Tanev pairing together for now. Have Hakanpaa with Rielly, who typically seems to find success with those big lumbering defencemen, and drop OEL to the 3rd pair with Timmins. That's less of a demotion for OEL and more of a reality check that he can't continue to lead the team in ice-time at 21:40 per game all season long. He will surely still hover around 20 even on the "bottom" pair with PP+PK time and occasional shifts with Rielly in the offensive zone.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1853469191430426625
Yeah, I think we're in a better spot this season. If whatever ails Matthews gets sorted out, then we're cooking with gas (presuming goaltending doesn't fall off too hard). The season is long, but I think they'll start to click more routinely around December. Probably won't be enough to catch Florida, so it'll be another date with Tampa.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
It's tough to say because he was such a good story last season but Benoit's easily been our worst defenceman so far this season. Worst CF% at 45.4% (Rielly is the next lowest at 52%). Worst xGF% at 41.3% (OEL is next at 51.6%). Those are pretty massive gaps. I never like to read too much into these numbers at 4-on-5 considering the sample size but his numbers there also stand out as worse than Tanev/McCabe/OEL.

With Hakanpaa's debut on the horizon (however long that lasts) it's clear he should be the odd man out I think, at least at first. Can keep the McCabe-Tanev pairing together for now. Have Hakanpaa with Rielly, who typically seems to find success with those big lumbering defencemen, and drop OEL to the 3rd pair with Timmins. That's less of a demotion for OEL and more of a reality check that he can't continue to lead the team in ice-time at 21:40 per game all season long. He will surely still hover around 20 even on the "bottom" pair with PP+PK time and occasional shifts with Rielly in the offensive zone.
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Great analysis Carlton!

Benoit is one of my favorite players from last year. He reminds me of Sylvain Lefebvre (from the 1993 Leafs) who played a similar style of stay at home slightly physical defense and always gives 100% every game. And Benoit's idol is Lefebvre..... so it's not a coincidence.

Benoit tries his best every time but maybe he is trying too hard..... his penalty minutes are stupid now. And this season with Benoit being at the bottom of Leaf blue line stats maybe more of an indicator that the blue line now has actual NHL caliber players this season vs last season. Guys like Liljegren and old Gio can't make the cut either.

I'm not sure Hakanpa can play a full load so there will probably be rotation between Benoit and Hakanpa.
 
Ozzie said:
And Benoit's idol is Lefebvre..... so it's not a coincidence.
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I’m not quite sure where you’re getting that from because there’s almost no way Benoit watched any of Lefebvre’s career seeing as how he retired when Benoit was 4 years old.

Their connection would have been as a coach when he was in San Diego. Not sure that would make him his idol.
 
Joe S. said:
I’m not quite sure where you’re getting that from because there’s almost no way Benoit watched any of Lefebvre’s career seeing as how he retired when Benoit was 4 years old.

Their connection would have been as a coach when he was in San Diego. Not sure that would make him his idol.
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I mean, we're probably splitting hairs there...maybe mentor instead of idol?
 
Joe S. said:
I’m not quite sure where you’re getting that from because there’s almost no way Benoit watched any of Lefebvre’s career seeing as how he retired when Benoit was 4 years old.

Their connection would have been as a coach when he was in San Diego. Not sure that would make him his idol.
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I also wonder how effective Lefebvre would have been in today's game. He was a stout defender in the 90s, for sure, but he also played most of his career in the clutch-and-grab era, when the pace of play was slower and he could get away with a lot more obstruction. A lot of those types of guys would really struggle in today's NHL - as Benoit has so far this season (and, really, his career prior to last season).
 
I think the problem with Benoit is that he is only serviceable as: a) a decent 6/7/8 depth defenseman or b) supporting (and being lifted by) a legitimate top 4 pairing partner.
This problem is exacerbated by Benoit being partnered with Timmins, who, at best, falls under these same usage criteria. Neither can anchor a bottom-six pairing and when one is in the lineup, the other should be out.
 
Andy007 said:
I think the problem with Benoit is that he is only serviceable as: a) a decent 6/7/8 depth defenseman or b) supporting (and being lifted by) a legitimate top 4 pairing partner.
This problem is exacerbated by Benoit being partnered with Timmins, who, at best, falls under these same usage criteria. Neither can anchor a bottom-six pairing and when one is in the lineup, the other should be out.
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I think that's generally fair but worth noting that to his credit Timmins' on-ice numbers (and for the most part I think the eye test) have been much better despite playing in similar environments.

One thing I should add to Benoit's defence though is his season numbers to date are being dragged down quite a bit by two colossally bad performances while Timmins was sitting. In the one game Myers played those two had a 6.72 xGF% and were outscored 0-1. In the game Liljegren played that pairing lost the shot attempts battle going 2-18 and had a 10.3% xGF%. Those are probably outliers there that aren't going to continue repeating 1 out of every 6 games.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1853885886569893992
It’s not really my schtick, but this is pretty crummy of them

To be fair, he's not just being an unhinged super fan (anymore), but has been using his platform to specifically promote a different beverage with a lot of Leafs paraphernalia on and around.

This is probably going to give that microbrewery reach and sink the incumbent a bit. Probably would've made more money by just buying them instead of firing off a C&D upfront.
 
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