2025 Blue Jays
- Thread starter Arn
- Start date
L K
Well-known member
If the numbers are true, it's not a good contract...BUT...its on the organization for not getting him to sign a deal earlier. It's on the organization for not having a plan B for if/when Bo/Vlad leave. The farm system is depleted because Atkins/Shapiro didn't draft well enough. The team is flawed as it is. They go into the offseason next year and replace Vlad Jr with what? They go into the offseason next year and replace Bo with what? There are some really solid free agent pitchers next year but the hitters are not all that great.
The team is pretty much forced to rebuild at this point if they aren't going all in with Bo/Vlad and I don't see this front office doing that.
The team is pretty much forced to rebuild at this point if they aren't going all in with Bo/Vlad and I don't see this front office doing that.
OldTimeHockey
Well-known member
There's always an alternative. Trade him for assets would be my move.
The jays have never turned one of their star players around and came out better for it. Not this management team and none going all the way back to gord ash. So forgive me if I’m not excited at how these guys would handle a trade.
Andy007
Well-known member
At the same time, alot of those scenarios were re-building, long-term retooling situations with significantly higher budget restraints. With the Jays now having a top-5 payroll in all of baseball, I imagine the idea would be to accrue assets and then spend generously on the FA and trade markets.
And just an update for those who bash the current regime's trading record: Gabriel Moreno is 25yo and coming off of a 2.6WAR season. He (and one season of Gurriel) were traded for Daulton Varsho, 28yo, who had a 5WAR last year (higher WAR than Vladdy's 162 game average, btw). Kirk, the catcher the Jays chose to kept and allowed them to deal Moreno, is 26yo and had a 2WAR last year (in a down season for him). That's just the first trade I hear people trash, and I feel like it's completely overblown.
Teoscar was a miscalculation but he was an impending free agent and the idea was that Vladdy wouldn't turn into a 2WAR player and that him, Bo, Varsho and Belt would provide enough HR to compensate for Teo's exit. They wanted a potentially elite reliever in Swanson (1.7WAR previous season) who was under team control for multiple years, and got an above average, young prospect as well. Not a great trade by any stretch, but it was literally for 1 year of Hernandez, who went to Seattle and hit .740 OPS and 2WAR. Trades have not been the issue (and there are issues) with this regime.
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OldTimeHockey
Well-known member
So the answer is to hold onto him, pay through the nose for him, hope for something to be different, and continue to miss the playoffs?
That also doesn't seem like a recipe for winning.
Nope. I’m not saying one over the other. But at the same time, the jays have absolutely nothing to replace him with. And to be fair, they have made the playoffs every season except this past one. Do I think that’s impressive or something to be proud of? No. But it’s not like this has been a last place team for the last few years.
Look, I don’t know what the answer is. A big part of me doesn’t give a shit what they pay him because a. It’s not my money and b. there’s no hard salary cap.
My point was that this team’s track record on trading star players has been less than impressive.
Arn
Well-known member
I'd say that's fair. And I'd add to it that this current management regime doesn't seem to have had a coherent plan in place. They got the team to a certain point and now it seems to be a case of "shit, let's try and sign whoever the biggest free agent is and hope it works out" each year rather than either developing players internally or smartly re-stocking the cupboard with potential to compliment the big league team.
Like I don't know what the team's vision is or what the team is trying to be.
I did about 4 years ago when it was a young team, with a bit of swagger, a lot of personality, a bit of fun, with the home run jacket and all. But they just didn't take things seriously, apparently, and since they tried to make the team "more serious" it's pretty much regressed year on year.
What are they trying to be now? Do they even know?
Arn
Well-known member
Funny enough, I've just seen this article in The Athletic as well, the "Could have been a Blue Jay" roster. Which I think kind of backs up the point about their strategy being just try and sign someone and hope they fix it.
But when they haven't got those guys, and realistically I don't think they ever were likely to get many of them, there doesn't seem to have been a back up plan or pivot.
www.nytimes.com
The article is, however, possibly more positive about the Jays chances/roster than I suspect the fans are. I feel like those failed pursuits actually give the team a bad look, like a look of desperation. And maybe it contradicts my feelings they have't a backup plan. I guess we shall see! But I'm not expecting to make the playoffs...
But when they haven't got those guys, and realistically I don't think they ever were likely to get many of them, there doesn't seem to have been a back up plan or pivot.
The Blue Jays ponder what might have been — the All-Almost-a-Blue-Jay Team — and what’s ahead
Missing out on Ohtani, Soto, Burnes, Alonso and Sasaki. Failing to extend Vlad Jr. Is this becoming a thing? Taking the temp of those in TO.
www.nytimes.com
The article is, however, possibly more positive about the Jays chances/roster than I suspect the fans are. I feel like those failed pursuits actually give the team a bad look, like a look of desperation. And maybe it contradicts my feelings they have't a backup plan. I guess we shall see! But I'm not expecting to make the playoffs...
Frank E
Active member
So, it looks like Vladdy might have been at ~$42m X 14.
www.sportsnet.ca
Report: Blue Jays' Guerrero Jr. says final ask in extension talks was under $600M
After failing to come to terms on a long-term extension with the Toronto Blue Jays earlier this spring, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. opened up about what he and his camp were looking for in negotiations on Thursday.
dappleganger
Well-known member
So, it looks like Vladdy might have been at ~$42m X 14.
Report: Blue Jays' Guerrero Jr. says final ask in extension talks was under $600M
After failing to come to terms on a long-term extension with the Toronto Blue Jays earlier this spring, Vladimir Guerrero Jr. opened up about what he and his camp were looking for in negotiations on Thursday.
15 years x $585m? They should have gotten something done around $38m on a lifetime deal. Defer something like $8m/year.
It's unfortunate that their star player wanted to sign a contract to spend his whole career as a Blue Jay and they couldn't figure it out. It's not just Vlady's performance on the field, his popularity among the fan base has tremendous value as well. Sometimes you just have to take your medicine.
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Andy007
Well-known member
585 million and a contract that runs until Guerrero is 40 years old. I can't believe anyone could think that the Jays should have signed that deal. This guy already has no position or defensive value and is LITERALLY at the bottom on the entire MLB in baserunning. Imagine how he's gonna look at, say, age 35? Nope! Make bold decisions, don't placate casual fans; that is an absolute dumpster fire of a potential contract.
Oooooook
www.sportsnet.ca
Blue Jays, Alejandro Kirk agree to five-year, $58-million extension
The Toronto Blue Jays and catcher Alejandro Kirk have agreed to terms on a five-year, $58 million extension.
dappleganger
Well-known member
bustaheims
Well-known member
Even if he doesn’t, with his defence, if he can produce anywhere above league average, it’s a good deal.
Andy007
Well-known member
Interesting stat, in 2022, when Vladdy got his GG and MVP votes etc etc....he and Kirk both had the exact same 4.0 WAR
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dappleganger
Well-known member
Kirk is a good catcher. He's young. Seems to handle the staff well. He has deficiencies in his game, but he could mitigate some of that with a little more power.
I don't think there is any other Blue Jay I want at bat in a sac fly situation than Alejandro.
I don't think there is any other Blue Jay I want at bat in a sac fly situation than Alejandro.
Andy007
Well-known member
I think the biggest thing with him is his shape and conditioning, particularly when combined with having to play such a grueling position. He certainly has the hitting ability that, when matched with his defensive acumen, could really result in some position-leading years. The contract has fantastic potential, let's just hope Kirk can get in decent shape and play to his abilities.