Armchair GM 2017-2018
- Thread starter Frank E
- Start date
I should've probably rephrased that a bit, but I do think it's basically true, and I don't think you're wrong. Its the way it is with this hard cap system it seems - it's generally tougher to pay top dollar to FAs and expect to compete with a team that has RFAs on team friendly contracts.Nik the Trik said:
Kin
Active member
Bender said:
Obviously it goes without saying that you want all of your players outperforming their salaries but I don't think saying that it's "tougher" to be paying players market rates means it can't be done. Ovechkin signed for what was market rate at the time and the Caps have been pretty competitive. Ditto Lundqvist and the Rangers. Sure, it means the GM can't be playing on easy mode but those are two different things.
Beyond that, even if what you're saying is true, that shouldn't be on Karlsson and we shouldn't say it's indicative of a lack of desire on his part to be on a winning team. If it's true, it's that the league and by extension individual clubs that have put their own profitability above competitiveness. It's not Karlsson or any other player's responsibility to bear that burden and we shouldn't expect players to care much about winning if teams don't.
Bender said:
Because I'm bored, here's a makeshift 2019/2020 roster with Karlsson signed as UFA:
Hyman (2.25) - Matthews (11) - Kapanen (1.5)
Marleau (6.25) - Kadri (4.5) - Marner (7)
Grundstrom (.925) - Nylander (7) - Brown (2.1)
Johnsson (1) - Aaltonen (1) - Leivo (1.2)
Gauthier (1.2)
Horton (LTIR)
Kessel (1.2)
Reilly (5) - Karlsson (11)
Dermott (.863333) - Zaitsev (4.5)
Borgman (1.5) - Liljegren (.925)
Carrick (1.5)
Andersen (5)
Pickard (1.5)
Cap hit: 79,913,333
Cap: 80,000,000 (conservative guess)
Cap space:86,667
After 19/20:
- UFA
- Marleau (-6.25)
- Horton (----)
- RFA
- Brown (+2?)
- Grundstrom (+1?)
- Lilegren (+3?)
- Dermott (+2?)
And guys like Gauthier, Aaltonen, Leivo, Kapanen, Borgman, Carrick all depend on length of contract.
So, after 19/20, there'll be some changes to keep under the cap, barring some massive cap increases or team-friendly deals.
Edit: This doesn't take into account bonus overages if we'd have any.
Edit2: Fixed my RFA numbers in the 'After 19/20' section - I didn't subtract current (19/20) cap hit before determining their increase on the cap.
Coco-puffs
New member
herman said:
And north of $5M.
herman
Well-known member
WHAT ABOUT:
5M/1Yr for each of the Sedins.
Hyman (2.25) - Matthews (0.925) - Nylander (~7)
Marleau (6.25) - Kadri (4.5) - Brown(2.1)
Sedin (5) - Sedin (5) - Marner (0.894)
Martin (2.5) - Gauthier (~0.7) - Leivo (0.925)
Soshnikov (~0.9)
Kapanen (0.863)
Rielly (5) - Hainsey (3)
Gardiner (4.05) - Zaitsev (4.5)
Borgman (0.925) - Carrick (~0.8)
Dermott (0.863)
Andersen (5)
Sparks (0.675)
Not including Nylander's new contract, and assuming all the lesser players get signed for those estimates (~) above, also including Horton and Kessel and bonus overages, we're looking at almost 20M (out of ~78M) to work with for Nylander, a 3C, and 3LW.
You can fill both empty roles easily internally with Nylander + Marlie, OR just go to town on a 1 year deal for the Sedins which would bring us to around where we could use LTIR for the final year of Horton. Or even a 7-8M for 1 year Joe Thornton. (Tavares isn't doing a short term deal)
Unless we can pry Trouba (RFA) out of Winnipeg, there's not much on the market for defense worth pursuing.
5M/1Yr for each of the Sedins.
Hyman (2.25) - Matthews (0.925) - Nylander (~7)
Marleau (6.25) - Kadri (4.5) - Brown(2.1)
Sedin (5) - Sedin (5) - Marner (0.894)
Martin (2.5) - Gauthier (~0.7) - Leivo (0.925)
Soshnikov (~0.9)
Kapanen (0.863)
Rielly (5) - Hainsey (3)
Gardiner (4.05) - Zaitsev (4.5)
Borgman (0.925) - Carrick (~0.8)
Dermott (0.863)
Andersen (5)
Sparks (0.675)
Not including Nylander's new contract, and assuming all the lesser players get signed for those estimates (~) above, also including Horton and Kessel and bonus overages, we're looking at almost 20M (out of ~78M) to work with for Nylander, a 3C, and 3LW.
You can fill both empty roles easily internally with Nylander + Marlie, OR just go to town on a 1 year deal for the Sedins which would bring us to around where we could use LTIR for the final year of Horton. Or even a 7-8M for 1 year Joe Thornton. (Tavares isn't doing a short term deal)
Unless we can pry Trouba (RFA) out of Winnipeg, there's not much on the market for defense worth pursuing.
Frank E
Active member
It's only fair in that they owe Leaf fans. After all, Sundin went over there to help them in his twilight.
Neither one of them can score goals anymore, so unless you're thinking Marner is going to be the shooter on that line, I think I'd put Nylander with them.
Swede line, man.
Neither one of them can score goals anymore, so unless you're thinking Marner is going to be the shooter on that line, I think I'd put Nylander with them.
Swede line, man.
dappleganger
Active member
Why not have both? 8)
Highlander
Active member
Did you see the ESPN report on Hedman being injured and Morgan Rielly being a possible replacement for him?
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!
Must have been some bad acid for that writer!
Guru Tugginmypuddah
Well-known member
Highlander said:
The article talks about Rielly possibly replacing Hedman at the All-Star game.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Guru Tugginmypuddah said:
That makes much more sense.
Highlander said:
Or maybe the reader...
herman
Well-known member
These are going to start coming in:
https://theleafsnation.com/2018/01/13/why-the-leafs-need-to-trade-jvr-before-the-trade-deadline/
In this article, JvR's future deal is compared to similarly aged players who netted large-ish UFA deals: Oshie, Lucic, Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson. I'm not sure if it is merely a function of having watched him play more than others on this list, but I'm easily more confident in JvR's production than the others at the time of those signings (to which I scoffed at).
I suspect the Leafs will still retain him.
I hope they trade him and Bozak and Komarov (and Moore and Polak) for futures/deadline trade chips, but I hoped that for the past two years when their value was pretty much peaked. Get enough resources from trading away our UFA to bes and we can probably throw together a very competitive package for Damon Severson (who is on a long term deal until 2023 but seems to be falling off their depth chart) + Marcus Johansson (Bozak replacement).
https://theleafsnation.com/2018/01/13/why-the-leafs-need-to-trade-jvr-before-the-trade-deadline/
In this article, JvR's future deal is compared to similarly aged players who netted large-ish UFA deals: Oshie, Lucic, Okposo, Ladd, Eriksson. I'm not sure if it is merely a function of having watched him play more than others on this list, but I'm easily more confident in JvR's production than the others at the time of those signings (to which I scoffed at).
I suspect the Leafs will still retain him.
I hope they trade him and Bozak and Komarov (and Moore and Polak) for futures/deadline trade chips, but I hoped that for the past two years when their value was pretty much peaked. Get enough resources from trading away our UFA to bes and we can probably throw together a very competitive package for Damon Severson (who is on a long term deal until 2023 but seems to be falling off their depth chart) + Marcus Johansson (Bozak replacement).
I was going to quote your post in this reply, Herman. For some reason, that function isn't working for me. But anyway...
I agree with the article author's premise. The young core of the Leafs isn't ready to assume leadership. The veterans they have aren't good enough to lead the team to any real success.
I'd be looking to move any of the veterans; JVR, Komorov, Bozak, Moore, etc. for whatever they would bring in return. Including Marleau, but does he have a NTC? I'm not sure on that.
I'm also not sure what the point of signing him was, unless one buys into the veteran mentorship idea. There might be something to that, but the term and salary seem excessive for what he's actually contributing. It's too early in the day for the Leafs to be paying players for what they've done for other teams. I was hoping the current Leafs management had gotten past that unfortunate tendency.
I'm very interested to see how the Leafs braintrust is going to handle the rest of the season.
I agree with the article author's premise. The young core of the Leafs isn't ready to assume leadership. The veterans they have aren't good enough to lead the team to any real success.
I'd be looking to move any of the veterans; JVR, Komorov, Bozak, Moore, etc. for whatever they would bring in return. Including Marleau, but does he have a NTC? I'm not sure on that.
I'm also not sure what the point of signing him was, unless one buys into the veteran mentorship idea. There might be something to that, but the term and salary seem excessive for what he's actually contributing. It's too early in the day for the Leafs to be paying players for what they've done for other teams. I was hoping the current Leafs management had gotten past that unfortunate tendency.
I'm very interested to see how the Leafs braintrust is going to handle the rest of the season.
herman
Well-known member
skrackle said:
I think you answered your own question regarding why Marleau was signed (young core isn?t ready to assume leadership). He has a no movement clause, so if we do move him, it?ll be by his choice.
As a numbers and facts person in general, I do buy the veteran leadership angle largely based on what I?ve seen on teams I?ve run and how other rebuilding teams appeared to work (still very intangible). When he was signed, I saw it as a veteran mentor for the superstars from the top of the draft list who has maintained his body and personal life to be above reproach. I think there is value in embedding that type of dedication/professionalism/leadership by example into your lineup of young superstars. Martin might be good for giving the kids an older brother, but he knows little to nothing of the pressures of being a top pick and playing nearly forever with one organization.
As for his cost, he didn?t pick the highest offer, but he certainly still wouldn?t have come if we didn?t cross a certain threshold. With our LTIR situation, we had the flexibility to throw more money than warranted at his performance level to grease the wheels. Heck, Thornton was propositioned as well but he chose to stay. The difference with this front office?s veteran purchases than previous ones is that they are complementary purchases to insulate the outsides of the core (from the top/side and from the bottom) rather than core player transactions. I noted this earlier, but they basically chose skating/still performing vets for every class of player in the lineup. These aren?t their primary reasons for being acquired (they still need to be able to play), but a healthy portion of the decision in my estimation.