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Armchair GM 2017-2018

Coco-puffs said:
I believe the odds-makers have the Leafs in the Top 10 to win the cup at 14-1, tied with Tampa for best in our division.

Yeah, so Vegas Odds-makers make odds based not on what they think is likely to happen but based on where they think they can set the line to encourage the most betting without it being a bad investment for sports books. Top 10 worst odds for gamblers does not necessarily equal top 10 team in the league.

In particular a team like the Leafs, with a large and passionate fan base, is more likely to have artificially bad odds in case of a win and then a large payout.

Not to knock anyone's socks off but guys who run Vegas sports books aren't actually, like, the world's biggest authorities on what teams are good at sports.
 
Coco-puffs said:
Did you just tell me that {Matthews, Nylander, Moore} > {Matthews - Nylander - Bozak}? 
 
In both scenario's Nylander is replacing Kadri when he's injured.  Its a discussion of whether Bozak is replaceable by Moore and I still think you are nuts if you say so.

It's awful fun to completely ignore variables like usage and line mates when comparing players, isn't? And to reframe your argument - which was seemed to be pretty clearly based on having Bozak move into the spot vacated by Matthews or Kadri, not Nylander.

That being said, let's look at Moore vs Bozak for a moment here.

Based on the numbers at hockey-reference.com, last season, Moore put up an even-strength p/60 of 1.45, with an OZS% of 39.5. According to dobberhockey, his most common line mates (in no particular order) at even strength were Riley Nash, Noel Acciari, Jimmy Hayes, and Tim Schiller. Combined, these 4 players put up 38 even-strength points all season.

Meanwhile, Bozak put up an even-strength p/60 of 2.03, with an OZS% of 52.5. According to dobberhockey, his most common line mates - by an extremely wide margin - were JvR and Marner, each of whom had at least 40 even-strength points.

So, yeah, with better zone starts and better line mates - even if it's just one of Marner or JvR - I do think that Moore could equal or surpass the contributions that would Bozak make in the same scenario. He's a better defensive player with a similar face-off proficiency. Boak's offensive numbers are inflated significantly from the PP time that he shouldn't be getting when the Leafs are healthy, and probably shouldn't get in any significant amount even if one of Matthews or Kadri were injured when the team would still have Nylander, Marner, JvR, Marleau, whichever of Matthews/Kadri is healthy in this scenario, plus Kapanen, Brown, and other young guys the Leafs need to use more effectively - and that's assuming they stick to the 4 forward, 1 D PP formation.

Coco-puffs said:
Also, nevermind the downgrade happening on the right side prior to the injury.  Nobody that would come in and replace Nylander on the right side is up to his level.  Moving Marner into his spot just creates a hole where Marner was.

I think we'd see pretty quickly that putting Kapanen in that spot would make up a fair bit of that gap - obviously, he's not at Marner's level, but I'm confident he's closer than you seem to be giving him credit for. I actually think the defensive improvements from a JvR-Moore-Kapanen line could mitigate most of - if not all - the offensive drop off from Marner to Kapanen.
 
Analytics and analysis:  Breaking down the Leafs' players' penalties both taken & drawn: 

(article a bit dated but still merits a look): http://faceoffcircle.ca/2017/10/17/toronto-maple-leafs-take-draw-penalties-matters/
 
Sort of a follow up on the "how damaging was making the playoffs?" discussion on the GDT, and related to the issue of what to do with the expiring deals (Komarov, JvR, Bozak)....

I think the crucial elements, the core, are in place. The Leafs have got the 4 forwards, 3 defensemen (rather than one stud, alas), and starting goaltender they'll try to contend with. And, compared to the last time the team sniffed the playoffs, I'm pretty confident this core has a lot less wrong with it than that one. The Leafs' ultimate success will hinge on all sorts of stuff -- injuries, luck, etc. -- but, among them, something the management can control: good supporting players and depth.

So the biggest question I've got, from the armchair, is whether the NHL-ready prospects in the system -- let's call em Leivo, Kapanen, Soshnikov, and Johnsson -- can be serviceable, under-$3m/year options in the top-9 for the next 3 or 4 years. If they can be that, the team's good to go (i.e. start contending), even with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and maybe Gardiner set for big raises in the next few years. If they can't, the Leafs are probably looking at Option B:  bring back one or more of the expiring UFAs or filling the hole on the UFA market -- in either case, devoting more dollars to the position than they'd otherwise have to. Option C, of course, is to be a top-heavy, middling team.

Making the playoffs last year and thinking they're close (or winning the draft lottery in '16 and going into win-now mode) has meant we're not getting the chance to see whether any of the RFAs can really excel in a NHL top-9 role. Separate from the asset-management issue of whether it'd be nice to have picks and prospects for JvR, Bozak, and Komarov, by keeping them in the line-up night in and night out to win now, the Leafs going into the crucial "how do you build a deep, talented roster in a cost-effective way with lots of cap committed to a core" phase blind...

Or maybe they're not, and what they're seeing in AHL games and at practice is sufficient for them to know that there are internal replacements for the expiring UFAs, and, even if they don't recoup assets on JvR & c., there's at least going to be cost-controlled top-9 players on the team going forward.

Still, as a fan, I'd like to see that for myself. Unfortunately, Babcock's win-now static lineup means, barring an injury, we won't be able to...

The armchair concern: I worry that the most likely outcome is a bad one -- to wit, either they get attached to/ worry they can't compete without some of the expiring UFAs and sign them to deals that'll make the team less competitive than it ought to be over the long term (option B above) or they end up surprised to find what's in the system can't quite hack it and scramble to fill roster holes, now without the assets they'd've got if they had moved JvR, Bozak, Komarov (option C).

All of which comes down to something folks around here have been saying for a while: (1) trade the soon-to-be UFAs yesterday, (2) see where you get with something like...

Hyman - Matthews - Brown
Marleau - Nylander - Kapanen
Leivo - Kadri -Marner
Martin - Moore - Soshnikov

(I'd wager playoffs, early exit)

And (3) use the assets from Bozak, JvR, and Komarov to (a) keep the prospect pool full or (b) plug the holes that become apparent as the above lineup plays a bunch of games.
 
Given how the defense hasn't gotten any better than last year, I'd look at performing a minor overhaul.  Move Bozak and JvR for futures, demote Borgman and Polak, and target:

Brenden Smith
Alex Petrovic
Brayden McNabb

These guys have been healthy scratches this year, so there's a chance we could pick them up:
http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-a-look-at-early-season-scratches-1.896892

While we're at it, see if the Ilses are interested in moving DeHann for JvR.
 
Gardiner + 1st for Trouba
JvR for DeHann
2nd + Carrick for Petrovic

Reilly - Trouba
Hainsey - Zaitsev
De Hann - Petrovic

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
Leivo - Marleau - Marner
Martin - Bozak - Kapanen


I'm thinking the first two deals are overpayments, but I'm trying to overpay instead of underpay (to be realistic instead of a homer).
 
AvroArrow said:
Gardiner + 1st for Trouba
JvR for DeHann
2nd + Carrick for Petrovic

Reilly - Trouba
Hainsey - Zaitsev
De Hann - Petrovic

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
Leivo - Marleau - Marner
Martin - Bozak - Kapanen


I'm thinking the first two deals are overpayments, but I'm trying to overpay instead of underpay (to be realistic instead of a homer).

I was hoping that we could get Trouba and McNabb.

3 things I feel WPG needs:

SJS 2nd Pick,              Gardiner,                      Soshnikov            for    Trouba
High draft pick, arguably Leafs top Dman and a solid bottom 6 winger for a RHD

Bozak ($2 MIL retained) + Marincin for McNabb

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Komarov - Kadri - Brown
JVR - Marleau - Kapanen
Martin - Marner - Leivo

Reilly - Trouba
Hainsey - Zaitsev
McNabb - Carrick

Carrick is fiesty but 5" and 25 lbs lighter than Petrovic.  Not sure how good Petrovic is in comparison to Carrick. 

I was wondering if McNabb could be partnered with Liljegren in the future and Carrick would be traded then.
 
There have been some suggestions that the Blue Jackets might be open to moving Ryan Murray. While he hasn't quite lived up to his pre-draft hype, he could still be a quality pick up, depending on the price. He coudl definitely work as a part of the 2nd PK unit, and, in the right situation, could show still show some of that potential. At the very least, he's an upgrade on Borgman/Polak/etc.
 
http://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-forwards-in-high-demand-as-trade-talks-heat-up-1.915674

The market is opening up as teams look to acquire forwards.  Surely there would be a fit there with the Leafs.
 
bustaheims said:
There have been some suggestions that the Blue Jackets might be open to moving Ryan Murray. While he hasn't quite lived up to his pre-draft hype, he could still be a quality pick up, depending on the price. He coudl definitely work as a part of the 2nd PK unit, and, in the right situation, could show still show some of that potential. At the very least, he's an upgrade on Borgman/Polak/etc.

Looking at his hero charts for the last couple of years, it looks like Polak actually outperforms him slightly.  Depends on what would have to be given up to get him.
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
http://www.tsn.ca/insider-trading-forwards-in-high-demand-as-trade-talks-heat-up-1.915674

The market is opening up as teams look to acquire forwards.  Surely there would be a fit there with the Leafs.

teams-in-the-market-for-forwards.JPG


Yeah, I was looking at this earlier. Funny thing, a couple of these teams are on this list of their own doing (Edmonton, Florida).

Only Edmonton, St. Louis, and Anaheim are in the West for easier trading. And only Anaheim sort of has defensemen to give, but they're Cap-strapped and also facing a lot of injuries.
 
I don't mind throwing a bone to Montreal, who are playing Victor Mete at forward tonight. Gauthier for Mete 1 for 1 should do the trick.
 
Significantly Insignificant said:
Looking at his hero charts for the last couple of years, it looks like Polak actually outperforms him slightly.  Depends on what would have to be given up to get him.

It's things like this that make me question the value of those hero charts. Not that Murray has been outstanding or anything, but I just don't buy that he was outperformed by Polak in the real world. I'm all for analytics and all, but I feel like situations like this show the limitations of the current stats in terms of judging and comparing individual players.
 
Here's their charts, for the record:

Story%201_1.png


It shows that they're pretty much both bad. I'll take a pass on him. If we wanted to bring Murray back next season he'd need a qualifying offer close to $3mil and you can find better value than that elsewhere.
 
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