Armchair GM 2021-2022: Catharsis
- Thread starter herman
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Guilt Trip
Well-known member
Maybe not but they're going to protect him. They will need to get at least 1 goalie in the off season and at 1.6, Jack is a good option to have.Nik said:
Highlander
Active member
A Rielly trade could net us potentially a 1st, 2nd and decent prospect.Frank E said:
I'm just so frustrated with how this group fast tracked the rebuild in every way they possibly could rather than making prudent long term moves. They kept talking about wanting to compete year in year out. Is that really sustainable with the Big 4 + whatever scrubs? Where's our Cale Makar? Where's our Sam Girard? Where's our Bowen Byram? I'm so tired of assets going out and not recouping anything back.
JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Komarov, Andersen, Barrie, Kadri (in a weird way because Barrie is gone and Kerfoot may also be gone) bad use of picks in Rittich, Foligno, Boyle, Plekanec, bad signing in Marleau that cost us picks to get out of... like what is going on here? We can't remain competitive if the only time we're making trades for assets coming in is when our cap hand is forced and we trade Kapanen or Johnsson or Brown. I really think this is starting to look like mismanagement. We have no draft picks and nothing internally because of a terrible drafting record for the most part. We could see the best years of this core wasted and they could leave in free agency in a couple of years. Then what? This is just so baffling.
JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Komarov, Andersen, Barrie, Kadri (in a weird way because Barrie is gone and Kerfoot may also be gone) bad use of picks in Rittich, Foligno, Boyle, Plekanec, bad signing in Marleau that cost us picks to get out of... like what is going on here? We can't remain competitive if the only time we're making trades for assets coming in is when our cap hand is forced and we trade Kapanen or Johnsson or Brown. I really think this is starting to look like mismanagement. We have no draft picks and nothing internally because of a terrible drafting record for the most part. We could see the best years of this core wasted and they could leave in free agency in a couple of years. Then what? This is just so baffling.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Bender said:
I don't know about this part. A lot of experts think the Leafs have actually drafted quite well since Dubas took full control and the pipeline is generally well regarded. His picks might not be hammering down the door to get to the NHL, but to say the team has nothing internally because of a terrible drafting record doesn't land in the same way it did a few years ago. And, while it certainly appears as though there's not much on the cusp of cracking the roster, with prospects, you never really know. There are guys who could show up to camp in the fall and force their way on to the roster. There might not be any elite, 1st line types - though, the team doesn't really need that right now - but there could certainly be some solid middle six forwards, 2nd pairing dmen, etc. that breakthrough in the next couple years.
bustaheims said:
Need to give them roles and let them grow into them, whether it's 3rd line or 4th line or maybe (Robertson e.g.) something higher up. If Dubas keeps providing Keefe with "safe" option vets like Thornton, Simmonds, Vesey etc then you know what happens...those young players get into a game once in a while on the 4th line for 5 minutes. Then come playoff time the player isn't ready and/or you don't know what you might have. Brooks is a good example, if he was playing most of the season he might be able to make a bigger impact in the playoffs.
bustaheims
Well-known member
Chris said:
When they're ready, absolutely. I'm not sure any of them were necessarily ready for full-time duty when this season started. Even still, it's not exactly difficult to move the types of players and contracts the Leafs signed these guys to. We saw that when Boyd and Vesey both got plucked off waivers. Teams will happily give up conditional 6th and 7th round picks if they think a player can provide them with value. And, if no team does, it's easy enough to park these guys in the AHL if there clearly superior options present themselves. As easily as it was for Dubas gives Keefe the "safe" vets, it's even easier for him to take them away if the circumstances warrant.
If these guys do enough to earn a full-time spot, one will be created for them - but, they have to earn it. The Leafs aren't in a position to just hand young players a spot in the lineup. They're not a rebuilding team anymore.
L K
Well-known member
wnc096 said:
How idiotic was it really. He was an offense only defenseman who was misused by Babcock and then was producing better under Keefe but the stink was on him at that point. Getting a 3rd round pick for Barrie doesn't stock the cupboards and it would have taken an asset out of the Leafs hands come the playoffs. They weren't getting a 1st round pick for him.
There was no way to fit him under the cap so it's a bit of a moot point but this team really missed post-Nov. 20, 2019 Tyson Barrie this season. It's kinda unfortunate pre-Nov. 20, 2019 Tyson Barrie will make people think otherwise.
bustaheims
Well-known member
L K said:
Exactly. IIRC, the reports post-deadline were that the offers for Barrie were disappointing. As much as I'm typically all for shipping out expiring contracts for picks and prospects, the return has to be commensurate with the value of the player to the team. Getting a mid-round pick for a defenceman logging the kind of minutes Barrie was would not have been a reasonable move to make.
bustaheims said:
Even if we grant that and we give them the benefit of the doubt regarding their draft record, and maybe I'm being too hard on them in the sense that we generally didn't have high picks and Sandin looks like he will be serviceable but how many prospects will be ready before the 34/88/16 contracts are up? How productive will they be and will they be good enough to be secondary players by then? We've got Robertson beyond Sandin and some intriguing guys but beyond Sandin/Robertson there are none that I would be willing to say they could be difference makers by the time the team needs them to be.
And, I mean, my other points still stand. What happens if they let Rielly walk? You can't walk everyone to free agency, that's just foolish. We haven't come out of the first round in 5 years. At what point do you go, ok we need to retool here, recoup some assets for guys who WILL walk, who we can't replace at similar cap space, grab some useful pieces and take a run a year later? They are proving they have not set this team up to be competitive year after year like they said they wanted. I mean, the first round isn't even the yardstick we should be measuring them against. As Nick said previously, maybe if all we want is a first round win in a soft division so we can avoid Boston/Tampa, which we still likely can't beat at this point, maybe we need to re-evaluate how good this team is and take a good, hard look at how they're structured.
L K
Well-known member
I know I've been mulling it myself but if we trade Rielly who are we replacing him with (outside of 1 for 1 Rielly for Jones type scenarios)?
The free agent market for defensemen is pure garbage this year. It's basically Dougie Hamilton, Tyson Barrie and a bunch of guys who don't produce anything offensively. I really like Sandin. I think he will do a good job but we aren't getting 45-50 point production out of him. Brodie, Holl, Dermott, Bogosian, Liljegren are all guys I don't trust to put up points in the NHL next year. You do need offense from your blueline and while I like the potential of Sandin I don't trust him to explode like that...if he does we are looking a heck of a lot better.
The free agent market for defensemen is pure garbage this year. It's basically Dougie Hamilton, Tyson Barrie and a bunch of guys who don't produce anything offensively. I really like Sandin. I think he will do a good job but we aren't getting 45-50 point production out of him. Brodie, Holl, Dermott, Bogosian, Liljegren are all guys I don't trust to put up points in the NHL next year. You do need offense from your blueline and while I like the potential of Sandin I don't trust him to explode like that...if he does we are looking a heck of a lot better.
Guilt Trip
Well-known member
We def need something back if Rielly is moved. I don't think he is. For all his deficiencies on D he does carry the play a lot. Playoff Rielly was very good IMO, just keep him to PP2.L K said:
Was scanning through the list of pending UFAs to see if there were any interesting middle-6 forwards who could potentially replace Hyman and/or Kerfoot if we lose them to FA/expansion. A couple of names immediately jumped out at me in Mikael Granlund and Blake Coleman, both of whom have been linked to the Leafs in the past. Jaden Schwartz was another tempting name if he's looking for a show-me type deal after a down-ish season.
Then the name of 25-year old, Group 6 UFA Michael Bunting caught my eye. I recalled an Arizona Coyotes reporter/observer speak pretty highly of him earlier this year. Some quick background info: he's 5'11" and 197lbs, turns 26 years old this September, was a former 4th round pick of the Coyotes way back in 2014, didn't played AAA hockey until he was 16 years old, and has just 26 NHL games under his belt. After his OHL career finished he spent 5 years in the AHL and slowly but steadily improved each year. This season he popped off with 19 points in 16 AHL games and that earned him a call-up to the NHL where he scored 10 goals and had 13 points in 21 games. He's unlikely to keep up a 26.3% shooting percentage but he also had some very good underlying numbers as well. He's generally described as a hard-working, pest type player.
Did I mention that he played his OHL hockey with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds where he was selected in the ninth round of the OHL draft by Kyle Dubas and coached by Sheldon Keefe? Certainly sounds like a very intriguing late-bloomer type player that the Leafs might be interested in this offseason.
Then the name of 25-year old, Group 6 UFA Michael Bunting caught my eye. I recalled an Arizona Coyotes reporter/observer speak pretty highly of him earlier this year. Some quick background info: he's 5'11" and 197lbs, turns 26 years old this September, was a former 4th round pick of the Coyotes way back in 2014, didn't played AAA hockey until he was 16 years old, and has just 26 NHL games under his belt. After his OHL career finished he spent 5 years in the AHL and slowly but steadily improved each year. This season he popped off with 19 points in 16 AHL games and that earned him a call-up to the NHL where he scored 10 goals and had 13 points in 21 games. He's unlikely to keep up a 26.3% shooting percentage but he also had some very good underlying numbers as well. He's generally described as a hard-working, pest type player.
Did I mention that he played his OHL hockey with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds where he was selected in the ninth round of the OHL draft by Kyle Dubas and coached by Sheldon Keefe? Certainly sounds like a very intriguing late-bloomer type player that the Leafs might be interested in this offseason.