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Ashton up, Holland down

Think I have pretty well given up on this team this year. Some of the bulls**t decisions that have been made by Nonis or Carlyle are just mind boggling. As much as I liked Nonis when Burke brought him in I'm starting to second guess some of his moves. I said it when they gave him the extension. WHY? Did absolutely nothing to deserve it. We almost beat the Bruins but hey had one of the worst 3 period collapses in a game 7 but here's an extension Dave. Upper management should be ashamed of themselves. They bring in Tim Leiweke. Who? Exactly this guy was brought in solely to make more money for MLSE. What hockey background does this guy have? Get some people in here that have some hockey knowledge and surround them with good personnel. The move with Holland and how they have handled him is absurd. If it's due to losing the second round pick Nonis is an idiot. Pick doesn't mean s**t and don't know why everyone is so worried about it. Said this many times picks are a crapshoot unless you're picking high in the first round which still doesn't assure you getting a guaranteed player. Personally think we wasted our first rounder last year with Gauthier. The team should be concentrating on putting the best lineup on the ice and if that means Holland playing then so be it. If the team gets it's head out of it's a** and makes the playoffs the pick will be in the 50th range big deal. Carlyle's stubbornness , Nonis' failure to improve the weaknesses of this team going into this season along with his off season moves which left the team with basically no wiggle room as far as the cap, and first and foremost the inability to see where we struggled last year and try to improve on that. That being the team's poor defensive play as a whole and inability to get the puck out of our end. That has not changed at all this year and I personally think has gotten worse. Whether it's Carlyle, the system or the players something needed to be done and to this day nothing has changed. They have been moving along well into the season and have dug themselves into a deeper hole. With some of the poor starts by other teams they could have placed themselves nicely in the standings but have not. My feeling is we are going to miss the playoffs. Sad thing is I think Burke got us in the right direction and with a couple smart additions the team could have looked real good. The move today doesn't surprise me. The way we have handled players such as Kadri, Gardiner even Rielly to a lesser extent and today Holland doesn't surprise me. Makes me think back to the Ballard days and it sucks.
 
L K said:
Does that honestly mean anything?  Remember when Nonis "wasn't happy with how Morgan Rielly was being used"?  I mean, sure, eventually you can annoy the GM enough that he fires you, but aside from protecting the 2nd round pick, you really aren't taking away an "asset" if Carlyle doesn't view him as one.  He clearly doesn't because in two losses in a row, Holland was used similarly, or even less, than Orr/McLaren.

I don't think it really means that much. I think it's simply the GM recognizing that the asset wasn't going to be used so he might as well keep the 2nd rounder. That said, there's still lots of hockey left, so he may be back.
 
bustaheims said:
Heroic Shrimp said:
bustaheims said:
Heroic Shrimp said:
Likely his notable second cousin, as always.

Greg Brady isn't Darren Dreger. Or, is he?

Damn, I somehow read all of that as having been from Dreger for some reason?  2 minutes in the box for me.

Aren't you an eye doctor? For shame.

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I assume the reason that Carlyle was playing Holland so little when Bozak got back was because he was predestined to be sent down as Nonis didn't want to give up that 2nd rounder.

 
2badknees said:
I assume the reason that Carlyle was playing Holland so little when Bozak got back was because he was predestined to be sent down as Nonis didn't want to give up that 2nd rounder.

But if you're going to dress him, you might as well get some minutes out of him.  A game played is a game played, whether he's on the 2nd line for 18 minutes or the 4th for 4.
 
2badknees said:
I assume the reason that Carlyle was playing Holland so little when Bozak got back was because he was predestined to be sent down as Nonis didn't want to give up that 2nd rounder.

Yeah, that doesn't really pass the smell test. If Carlyle knew Nonis was going to send Holland down, why wouldn't he just scratch him instead? I'm also pretty sure Nonis would have been okay with sacrificing the pick if it meant Holland was getting the ice time he deserved and the team looked like it might be able to win some games. Also, if Nonis was so concerned about giving up that pick, why wouldn't he have sent Holland down right when Bozak got back? There are just too many holes in your theory.
 
Hey Azzurri
Damn good rant, almost read all of it.  Tim who?  Tim Lewieke is a winner, check out the LA Galaxy, Los Angeles Kings?  He is a leader who will not take a losing culture?sorry but facts are facts? look at the moves already with the Raptors and TFC.  Do you think he is going to keep Randy if Randy proves to be a loser. If Randy doesnt make the playoffs and Round 2 at least, he is toast.  Its not Nonis's fault if he was saddled with RC by Burke.  They will make a change and keep building, yes building the roster.
 
Stickytape said:
2badknees said:
I assume the reason that Carlyle was playing Holland so little when Bozak got back was because he was predestined to be sent down as Nonis didn't want to give up that 2nd rounder.

But if you're going to dress him, you might as well get some minutes out of him.  A game played is a game played, whether he's on the 2nd line for 18 minutes or the 4th for 4.

Well, it would mean that they would be cutting Kadri's minutes to accommodate a guy that would be sent down regardless. I think they were more interested in getting him (Kadri) going than making it a competition where one didn't truly exist. Or even (conspiracy hats on, everyone!) making sure Kadri wasn't devalued further by placing him on the 4th line.
 
bustaheims said:
Yeah, that doesn't really pass the smell test. If Carlyle knew Nonis was going to send Holland down, why wouldn't he just scratch him instead? I'm also pretty sure Nonis would have been okay with sacrificing the pick if it meant Holland was getting the ice time he deserved and the team looked like it might be able to win some games. Also, if Nonis was so concerned about giving up that pick, why wouldn't he have sent Holland down right when Bozak got back? There are just too many holes in your theory.

Because they needed someone to play 4th line center until Bolland comes back. I guess they figured they'll split that time between Holland's eligibility, and another Marlie stopgap.
 
2badknees said:
Because they needed someone to play 4th line center until Bolland comes back. I guess they figured they'll split that time between Holland's eligibility, and another Marlie stopgap.

They didn't call up a centre to replace Holland, so, clearly, they don't think they do need a centre to play on the 4th line. Care to try again?
 
bustaheims said:
They didn't call up a centre to replace Holland, so, clearly, they don't think they do need a centre to play on the 4th line. Care to try again?

If you'd like to cut down on the rudeness, I'd love to continue the debate. This is my train of thought, nothing more.
 
Mirtle article on Leafs' ice-time compared with rest of league: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-short-bench-in-for-test-during-busy-schedule/article16249640/#dashboard/follows/?page=2
 
Potvin29 said:
Mirtle article on Leafs' ice-time compared with rest of league: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-short-bench-in-for-test-during-busy-schedule/article16249640/#dashboard/follows/?page=2

None of that is new information but remains a legitimate critique of both the Leafs roster and the utilization of said roster.
 
Tigger said:
None of that is new information but remains a legitimate critique of both the Leafs roster and the utilization of said roster.

The worst part is that these are easy to deal with issues. There are, and always have been, alternatives to Orr and McLaren with the Marlies, and a coach that was less stubborn in terms of line matching and relying on their top lines would manage the roster much better.
 
bustaheims said:
bradyfan590: Have heard from several Nonis was less than thrilled w/ how Carlyle used Peter Holland last night, decision to send to AHL was two-fold...

bradyfan590: 1. Yes, the R3 pick to R2 pick matters, but 2. This IS a Nonis call...he's stripping an asset from Carlyle b/c of him misusing it.

bradyfan590: Nonis is using the "Carlyle Bullet" sooner or later & he's not trading for a skilled asset who can have a 3pt night v. Chicago who then...

bradyfan590: plays FEWER minutes in a close home game than Orr & McLaren. Leafs mgmt are taking this team back, I'm hearing. Watch what happens next.

Really hope this is true, otherwise Nonis is a bum.
 
Potvin29 said:
Mirtle article on Leafs' ice-time compared with rest of league: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-beat/mirtle-leafs-short-bench-in-for-test-during-busy-schedule/article16249640/#dashboard/follows/?page=2

What makes it more absurd is Carlyle has commented on the condensed schedule in post-game conference several times this year.  He always maligned the hectic nature of players going to the Olympics and coming back.  So his logic is to burn out the top 9 in the first half of the year. 
Barring a change in style I think this team is just in line to crash.  You can't play 40 minutes of defensive zone hockey (much more taxing) every night and expect to have legs come game games 70-82 and then the playoffs.
 
bustaheims said:
Tigger said:
None of that is new information but remains a legitimate critique of both the Leafs roster and the utilization of said roster.

The worst part is that these are easy to deal with issues. There are, and always have been, alternatives to Orr and McLaren with the Marlies, and a coach that was less stubborn in terms of line matching and relying on their top lines would manage the roster much better.

I don't think a substantial change in the bottom six/distribution of minutes is going to turn the Leafs into world beaters but yeah, likely better. It's easy to throw stones from the outside though so I take it with a grain or two, and that's not a lot.
 

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