Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge

[Optimus Reimer]

If they really felt the need to send threatening signals towards Randy why bring him back at all?

The same question could have been asked when Shanahan came out and said that the "swarm" defensive strategy Carlyle has been using doesn't work. If they didn't like his system, why bring him back? And, honestly, I can't figure out why they did bring him back, but I definitely get the feeling that they're making it very clear to him that his leash is short and there are already people in place to take his job if he don't do the job the front office wants him to do.

What my concern is if the Leafs start the season on a losing streak similar to how the team finished last season, what then?  In an entire season the Leafs would barely reach 20 wins.  Sure the Leafs could fire him, but to be on the hook for 2 years would be idiotic.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From the Oshawa Generals' radio guy:

@vishal_hussain

Can confirm that D.J Smith has interviewed/interviewing for a head coaching position. Team not confirmed but belief is it's the Marlies.

So potentially Spott could become an assistant with the Leafs.

Is that the DJ Smith that played was acquired from the Islanders in the Clark / Schneider deal?

I believe so.

It is. The very same one.

I'd just like to say a few words at the close of the DJ Smith Era in Toronto.  I believe that his impact will continue to be felt among the Marlies despite the change in direction and I think the foundation that he laid down the past 12 hours as rumoured Marlies coach should serve the team well going forward.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

The same question could have been asked when Shanahan came out and said that the "swarm" defensive strategy Carlyle has been using doesn't work. If they didn't like his system, why bring him back?

I'm not saying that Nonis and co. feel like there's nothing Randy can change to make the team better. I just don't think that they are going to approach these problems in a threatening tone that you're suggesting they are.

And, honestly, I can't figure out why they did bring him back, but I definitely get the feeling that they're making it very clear to him that his leash is short and there are already people in place to take his job if he don't do the job the front office wants him to do.

Actions speak louder than words/thoughts. If Carlyle was on such a thin rope than the Leafs management wouldn't have committed to him for the next 3 seasons. We have to face the possibility that the Leafs management actually just thinks that Randy is a good coach.

 

[Kin]

Spott's not the one taking the shot, it's Carlyle's bosses that are.

Right and they're the ones who are metaphorically behind him.

 

[losveratos]

If they really felt the need to send threatening signals towards Randy why bring him back at all?

The same question could have been asked when Shanahan came out and said that the "swarm" defensive strategy Carlyle has been using doesn't work. If they didn't like his system, why bring him back? And, honestly, I can't figure out why they did bring him back, but I definitely get the feeling that they're making it very clear to him that his leash is short and there are already people in place to take his job if he don't do the job the front office wants him to do.

What my concern is if the Leafs start the season on a losing streak similar to how the team finished last season, what then?  In an entire season the Leafs would barely reach 20 wins.  Sure the Leafs could fire him, but to be on the hook for 2 years would be idiotic.

If we only got 20 wins next year... I'd be over the moon with joy. We can only hope we're that lucky.

 

[seahawk]

From the Oshawa Generals' radio guy:

@vishal_hussain

Can confirm that D.J Smith has interviewed/interviewing for a head coaching position. Team not confirmed but belief is it's the Marlies.

So potentially Spott could become an assistant with the Leafs.

Is that the DJ Smith that played was acquired from the Islanders in the Clark / Schneider deal?

I believe so.

It is. He got into coaching after with the Windsor Spitfires after his playing days ended in '04. Been the head coach in Oshawa the last 2 years. Just got the title of assistant GM added today.

 

[Tigger]

I think there's something of course to be said for a "system" and a cohesive strategy, but during a lot of the season (especially in the last month) - I saw many players on the team consistently outworked and outbattled for the puck.

I don't think any system in the world can make up for a player that isn't willing/unable to compete for the puck at both ends of the ice. IMO, the club only has offensive talent that is able to play a rush game, and that's murder on a coach/defensive system.

The thing about puck battles is that the deciding factor is often as simple as who gets there first, and, systems can definitely influence that. The Leafs were playing a system that largely had them moving inwards rather than outwards, which saw them usually being second to the puck, and therefore, in a poor position to win puck battles, regardless of how willing or able they were to compete. While it won't fix everything, a more aggressive defensive system that sees the team pushing outward instead will put them in a better position to win more puck battles than they did this past season.

Being in a position ( or even a 'better' one ) to win a puck battle is one thing, being willing and able to win a puck battle through effort when even to the puck is entirely another and from what I saw the Leafs were sorely lacking when it came to that.

 

[bustaheims]

Being in a position ( or even a 'better' one ) to win a puck battle is one thing, being willing and able to win a puck battle through effort when even to the puck is entirely another and from what I saw the Leafs were sorely lacking when it came to that.

I agree that the Leafs probably need improvement when it comes to their effort level in puck battles. I'm just saying that the way they were told to play made those issues seem much more significant than they probably are. More often than not, it led to them needing to gain/regain possession of the puck rather than being in a position where they needed to retain it.

 

[Tigger]

Being in a position ( or even a 'better' one ) to win a puck battle is one thing, being willing and able to win a puck battle through effort when even to the puck is entirely another and from what I saw the Leafs were sorely lacking when it came to that.

I agree that the Leafs probably need improvement when it comes to their effort level in puck battles. I'm just saying that the way they were told to play made those issues seem much more significant than they probably are. More often than not, it led to them needing to gain/regain possession of the puck rather than being in a position where they needed to retain it.

It's probably a bad confluence of the two but honestly, their forecheck was so atrocious on balance that I have a time believing any system change would have made a significant enough influence alone. If we're saying playing more in the offensive zone is a good tonic for defensive imbalance then I think they really have to address some roster issues to that end.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy that the 'swarm is dead' but to me effort, fore checking, puck battling is a real issue for the Leafs if they want to take the next step.

 

[bustaheims]

It's probably a bad confluence of the two but honestly, their forecheck was so atrocious on balance that I have a time believing any system change would have made a significant enough influence alone. If we're saying playing more in the offensive zone is a good tonic for defensive imbalance then I think they really have to address some roster issues to that end.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not unhappy that the 'swarm is dead' but to me effort, fore checking, puck battling is a real issue for the Leafs if they want to take the next step.

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that all these things are related. The forecheck suffered this season, largely because, well, there wasn't much of one. A lot of the time where the was an opportunity to potentially get in on the forecheck, the players on the ice had spent a significant portion of their ice time in the defensive end, and, instead of forechecking, needed a line change. The offensive system has issues, as well. It frequently featured wingers standing still at the blue line waiting to tip the puck in. That also caused the forecheck to suffer, since they didn't have players attacking the zone with the speed needed to catch the defensive players before they got the puck out of dangerous areas. There was also generally too much of a gap between the forwards and the defence when the Leafs got the puck in their defensive end. One of the team's issues this season was that they didn't carry the puck into the defensive zone enough. These are all issues that can be addressed without having to change a single player on the roster. I don't deny that there are roster issues, but, I feel like the other issues really get in the way of properly evaluating how significant those issues are and where exactly they lie.

 

[Tigger]

Honestly, I'm of the opinion that all these things are related. The forecheck suffered this season, largely because, well, there wasn't much of one. A lot of the time where the was an opportunity to potentially get in on the forecheck, the players on the ice had spent a significant portion of their ice time in the defensive end, and, instead of forechecking, needed a line change. The offensive system has issues, as well. It frequently featured wingers standing still at the blue line waiting to tip the puck in. That also caused the forecheck to suffer, since they didn't have players attacking the zone with the speed needed to catch the defensive players before they got the puck out of dangerous areas. There was also generally too much of a gap between the forwards and the defence when the Leafs got the puck in their defensive end. One of the team's issues this season was that they didn't carry the puck into the defensive zone enough. These are all issues that can be addressed without having to change a single player on the roster. I don't deny that there are roster issues, but, I feel like the other issues really get in the way of properly evaluating how significant those issues are and where exactly they lie.

Yeah, I agree with some of what you're saying but the Leafs haven't had a fore check since before Wilson. I think they've had a bad gap overall, offensively and defensively, for a while too. There are a few players that seem to be able to enter the zone with control currently but also players that can't recognize when to make the safe play ( which I think in part is due to the overall experience level of the team ).

Generally, when it comes to sacrificing to make a play I think the Leafs were on the wrong end too many times last year.

Where I'd really agree when it comes to the long haul, more so than simple x's and o's, is that the Leafs didn't ice a complete roster with the forward group and would be one of my bigger criticisms of Carlyle/the coaching group/the management group. If the playoffs tell us anything it's that a team needs a 4th line ( hard working bottom 6 ) that can play to contribute to success in general and that your top 4 d really has to mesh with your top 9 f overall, something I'm utterly convinced the Leafs are really struggling with.

These things are related but I think you and I are looking at it from opposite ends, which is fair, often a picture has different interpretations and yet over arching solutions that fall within the same frame work.

 

[Redleaf]

Dreger reporting the Leafs have interest in Adam Oates as an assistant Coach. Waiting to see if he lands a head coaching job elsewhere first.

 

[Tigger]

Dreger reporting the Leafs have interest in Adam Oates as an assistant Coach. Waiting to see if he lands a head coaching job elsewhere first.

Grabbo and Kulemin sign with the Leafs, T-5...

 

[bustaheims]

Where I'd really agree when it comes to the long haul, more so than simple x's and o's, is that the Leafs didn't ice a complete roster with the forward group and would be one of my bigger criticisms of Carlyle/the coaching group/the management group. If the playoffs tell us anything it's that a team needs a 4th line ( hard working bottom 6 ) that can play to contribute to success in general and that your top 4 d really has to mesh with your top 9 f overall, something I'm utterly convinced the Leafs are really struggling with.

Well, I agree with you there. That was one of the more frequent criticisms of Carlyle all season, and, the worst part is that I feel they had the components of a pretty good 4th line in the organization all season, but, the insistence on having Orr or McLaren in the lineup superseded any opportunity to make that happen. The team needs a 4th line than reliably play ~10 minutes a night, and I think they have the personnel if they can get over the need to have a facepuncher on the roster.

 

[LuncheonMeat]

Where I'd really agree when it comes to the long haul, more so than simple x's and o's, is that the Leafs didn't ice a complete roster with the forward group and would be one of my bigger criticisms of Carlyle/the coaching group/the management group. If the playoffs tell us anything it's that a team needs a 4th line ( hard working bottom 6 ) that can play to contribute to success in general and that your top 4 d really has to mesh with your top 9 f overall, something I'm utterly convinced the Leafs are really struggling with.

Well, I agree with you there. That was one of the more frequent criticisms of Carlyle all season, and, the worst part is that I feel they had the components of a pretty good 4th line in the organization all season, but, the insistence on having Orr or McLaren in the lineup superseded any opportunity to make that happen. The team needs a 4th line than reliably play ~10 minutes a night, and I think they have the personnel if they can get over the need to have a facepuncher on the roster.

Steve Spott as an assistant an interesting move.  I would love to see what influence he would have on the makeup of the third and fourth lines, assuming some guys make the jump.  The Leafs could save some cap $$ and (hopefully) get an upgrade on what we saw this season.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Grabbo and Kulemin sign with the Leafs, T-5...

Oates talks to the veterans, Spott handles the kids, Randy calls Orr and McLaren every other week to see how they're doing in the AHL.

 

[Redleaf]

Grabbo and Kulemin sign with the Leafs, T-5...

Oates talks to the veterans, Spott handles the kids, Randy calls Orr and McLaren every other week to see how they're doing in the AHL.

Giddy up.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Grabbo and Kulemin sign with the Leafs, T-5...

Oates talks to the veterans, Spott handles the kids, Randy calls Orr and McLaren every other week to see how they're doing in the AHL.

Giddy up.

Caps fans seemed to have a Carlyle-like hate for Oates, so I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about that. But if we're keeping Randy I guess we could go for full-on suck mode.

 

[Redleaf]

Grabbo and Kulemin sign with the Leafs, T-5...

Oates talks to the veterans, Spott handles the kids, Randy calls Orr and McLaren every other week to see how they're doing in the AHL.

Giddy up.

Caps fans seemed to have a Carlyle-like hate for Oates, so I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about that. But if we're keeping Randy I guess we could go for full-on suck mode.

Well. The kids should learn something.

Seriously, Spott has done a tremendous job in his first season with the Marlies. I'd like to know if it was luck or his coaching that made the difference, but if it was him, than I'd more than welcome him as assistant coach next year, and see where that goes.

 

[bustaheims]

Caps fans seemed to have a Carlyle-like hate for Oates, so I'm not actually sure how I'd feel about that. But if we're keeping Randy I guess we could go for full-on suck mode.

That's the only part of holding on to Randy that makes sense for me. It's a mini covert rebuild.