hockeyfan1
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tusket said:
Ah, optimism, what it can do!
Carlyle Extended/Randy's Revenge
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Ah, optimism, what it can do!
Guru Tugginmypuddah
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Oh man I can't wait for the hilarity to ensue!
L K
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Nik the Trik said:
My big issue is more that it was lines 1 through 4 that had similar issues with getting the puck out of the defensive zone and maintaining puck control in the offensive one. I agree that the goal shouldn't be a team that barely squeezes into the wildcard spot so bigger changes to roster need to be made regardless of who is running the show.
Where I have a problem is that Carlyle saying it's the roster that's wrong and not me, ignores the fact that he couldn't do anything with a very good Anaheim team right before he came to Toronto. That Anaheim team had the exact same issues with puck possession and getting hemmed in their own zone. I mean if Carlyle had won anything recently I would agree that what worked in the past should be applied, but honestly, we are talking about a guy with 1 playoff series win in the last 8 years. That isn't exactly my idea of a system of success any more than the Leafs playing run and gun with their head up their rear end in the defensive zone.
The roster needs big changes I just personally think one of those changes should be the coach who ran that ship. And I understand that the Leafs have a warchest that can handle firing guys with contract years left, but it just strikes me a funny that Randy is such a great coach but you need to justify his existence in the organization to sell him to your players? I'm just having a hard time rationalizing that argument by Nonis/Shanahan. Did the Blues tune Hitchcock out this year because he was in the last year of his contract? Is Detroit going to miss the playoffs next year because Babcock is in his last year of his contract?
Zee
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RedLeaf said:
Love how Simmons doesn't see the irony of bringing up Getzlaf.
"Two years ago, Ryan Getzlaf had a dreadful NHL season, scoring 11 goals, looking nothing like the star he was and the star he is now.
And just about everybody thought he was done as a big-time player."
Getzlaf looked "done" while playing under Carlyle. Amazing that once Carlyle was gone he suddenly became great again.
GhostofPotvin29
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Zee said:
The irony of the beginning to that article is too good. Ironically (in the 'like rain on your wedding day' sense) is that's also where I stopped reading.
I think the Leafs made the right move in all respects. There would have been no discussion at all about a coaching change had the Leafs made the playoffs. I think the Bernier injury was the biggest factor in that, but I am glad things turned out as they did because I would have preferred some changes in Carlyle's coaching staff. I have posted to that effect here beforehand. Not to say these guys were terrible coaches or anything like that, but I just think the bench needs more actual NHL experience behind the bench, guys who played the game - like Carlyle. A Larry Robinson type to coach the defence and penalty kill. An Adam Oates type to coach the offensive and power play. And, a face-off specialist like a Mike Peca or someone like that. People who had great success at that they do at the highest level. I think young players will really learn and respect guys who have been there - done that.
Brian Glennie
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"They love Jonathan Bernier, the goaltender, but they would love him more if he played more games. They love the first line of Phil Kessel, Tyler Bozak and James van Riemsdyk, which gave fits to opposition coaches. They love the development of the young defenders, Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner. That?s about where the love ends for now."
They don't love Phaneuf? Didn't Nonis just sign him for 7x$7M?
They don't love Phaneuf? Didn't Nonis just sign him for 7x$7M?
GhostofPotvin29
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This instills confidence like no contract extension can:
That's from Mirtle's recap of the extension, and I particularly like this one:
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-vote-of-confidence-for-head-coach-carlyle-is-mind-boggling/article18578098/
That's from Mirtle's recap of the extension, and I particularly like this one:
Link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/leafs-vote-of-confidence-for-head-coach-carlyle-is-mind-boggling/article18578098/
Boston Leaf
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The more I think of it Id rather Carlyle back with new assistants than bring in what is truly out there right now. The extension really doesnt mean much if the team gets out of the gate horribly. After Wilson had been extended around Christmas that year he was fired I beleive.. Extension doesnt always mean job sercurity..
Potvin29 said:
I love how this is so hard to figure out. They never adjusted their PK to defend against the new 1-3-1 PP formation that basically the entire league (including the Leafs) adopted this season.
Kin
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L K said:
Ok, and I think you're getting at a fair criticism here. If what Carlyle has shown is that the team he's trying to build, the only team he's capable of winning with, is one that looks at lot like the 06-07 Ducks then it's absolutely fair to say that it's pretty unlikely that a team with those precise dimensions is going to be put in place and so the team that the Leafs want may not be a match for Carlyle's style. That's fair. Personally, I think the Leafs were trying to build a team in that mold with a hope that Phaneuf could become a poor man's Pronger, Rielly could grow into a Niedermayer like player, Kessel would be Selanne, Bozak as McDonald and so on.
But in the more specific sense, I don't think Carlyle is wrong when he looks at the fundamental flaws of this team and says it's primarily a matter of personnel. Sure, you can criticize him for not being the best coach for maybe squeezing every point out of a deeply flawed roster but as we agree, that shouldn't be the benchmark.
L K said:
Well, something clearly went wrong near the end there.
L K
Active member
Potvin29 said:
I think the quote can be perceived as more innocent than it is being made out to be. I mean I've had plenty of situations where I'm working and people that should be getting better aren't. The message from that to me however is to change my management plan. I don't think Carlyle does that. And that ultimately will be my problem with stubborn old coaches. If you don't adapt the game passes you by. How you can look at the Leafs of the last two years and say they were anything more than a top line and good goaltending is absurd. To praise the coach because the Leafs have good goaltending.....
GhostofPotvin29
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CarltonTheBear said:
Yeah I think that was the conclusion from Gus Katsoros (I think) who looked at why Chicago and Toronto's PK both fell so much from the shortened season. The Leafs were giving up a ton more shots against on the PK than the previous season, and I think he discussed the league-wide adoption of the 1-3-1 as a major contributing factor.
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