Contracts for the Big-3

[herman]

Yup. To say nothing of personal feelings re: the Leafs and how they handle things, short of probably the two absolute least likely things at this point(Nylander signing a very team friendly deal or a team deciding to offer a boatload for Nylander now) this really does have to go down as a really bungled process by Dubas over a comparatively insignificant amount of money.

For pretty much the first time in the history of sporting negotiations, I'm actually siding with the player here.  And I definitely agree in that I think Dubas has completely botched this.

There's a longer game and bigger stakes than just Nylander that resulted in this whole proceeding. It takes a hard line to establish a team salary grid.

 

[ZBBM]

Yeah, this has devolved into something I never expected.  And it's not good.

Especially since all this hoopla has distracted us from our central missions as fans: slamming Babs' idiotic personnel decisions, calling for Hainsey's head on a dinner plate, wondering how other posters could possibly disagree with our well-considered opinions, sharpening our sens/habs schadenfreude, and important stuff like that there.

 

[Peter D.]

There's a longer game and bigger stakes than just Nylander that resulted in this whole proceeding. It takes a hard line to establish a team salary grid.

I think that was blown out of the water with the Tavares signing.

 

[herman]

There's a longer game and bigger stakes than just Nylander that resulted in this whole proceeding. It takes a hard line to establish a team salary grid.

I think that was blown out of the water with the Tavares signing.

I think this was happening whether or not Tavares was signed, and I have no regrets about the Tavares signing.

 

[Palmateer29]

Yup. To say nothing of personal feelings re: the Leafs and how they handle things, short of probably the two absolute least likely things at this point(Nylander signing a very team friendly deal or a team deciding to offer a boatload for Nylander now) this really does have to go down as a really bungled process by Dubas over a comparatively insignificant amount of money.

For pretty much the first time in the history of sporting negotiations, I'm actually siding with the player here.  And I definitely agree in that I think Dubas has completely botched this.

I have to disagree, I don't see this as Dubas botching anything. How is it Dubas fault that Nylander thinks he is worth more than he is? If Dubas bent over and signed him to 8x8 then it would definately be his fault. Pasternak, Ehlers and Forsberg are all better players and signed for less. I'm pretty sure none of those players would be traded for Nylander straight up.

If Nylander is getting help from his father that would explain why he only lasted a few years on each of the 20 or so teams he was on throughout his career. Yes the Leafs are a hug rich team but I don't really want one player's overpayment increasing the salaries of all the players to sign after him. I'd rather they trade him before they overpay him. A good dman would be more helpful than someone who doesn't want to be here.

 

[Kin]

There's a longer game and bigger stakes than just Nylander that resulted in this whole proceeding. It takes a hard line to establish a team salary grid.

Like I said, I think even if Nylander's ask is outrageous and they want to move on, this isn't the right way to do that.

And I think that anyone who thinks that the way Dubas has handled this will in anyway help him with the Matthews and Marner signings is kidding themselves. For all the talk about Nylander and the nefarious influence of his father, neither of those guys have re-upped to team friendly deals either.

 

[TML fan]

I don't understand all the haste and the "this is bad for the Leafs" talk. They can still sign him. It's not 5:01 on Saturday. This can still be worked out. Nothing has been lost. The Leafs are, what? 3rd overall in the league before Nylander has even played a game? Everything is good!

There has never been any urgency or pressure on either side to get this deal done. That's why it's not.

 

[Highlander]

Yup. To say nothing of personal feelings re: the Leafs and how they handle things, short of probably the two absolute least likely things at this point(Nylander signing a very team friendly deal or a team deciding to offer a boatload for Nylander now) this really does have to go down as a really bungled process by Dubas over a comparatively insignificant amount of money.

For pretty much the first time in the history of sporting negotiations, I'm actually siding with the player here.  And I definitely agree in that I think Dubas has completely botched this.

I have to disagree, I don't see this as Dubas botching anything. How is it Dubas fault that Nylander thinks he is worth more than he is? If Dubas bent over and signed him to 8x8 then it would definately be his fault. Pasternak, Ehlers and Forsberg are all better players and signed for less. I'm pretty sure none of those players would be traded for Nylander straight up.

If Nylander is getting help from his father that would explain why he only lasted a few years on each of the 20 or so teams he was on throughout his career. Yes the Leafs are a hug rich team but I don't really want one player's overpayment increasing the salaries of all the players to sign after him. I'd rather they trade him before they overpay him. A good dman would be more helpful than someone who doesn't want to be here.

Its not a question of Willie wanting to be here, I think he is dying to join his mates on the ice and be a Leaf. What he doesn't want is to be underpaid in relation to his other buddies: Kapanen is his best friend for C__st sake and what will we have to fork out to him on his renewal?  Matthews is going to be paid a zillion and looks like Sing along with Mitch is going to roast about 10 million shekels per.
So with his amazing talent level why does he want less than 8 per annum?  Make less than his bro's in arms?? NO way!
That is why some sort of bridge deal will probably be worked out and he can make the case at arbitration later on.
Dubas is just doing his job and has excellent advisors in Pridham and the others.

 

[Kin]

I don't understand all the haste and the "this is bad for the Leafs" talk.

In a best case scenario, and I mean absolute best, the end result here is going to be a player who the Leafs previously thought was very important to their future success missing months of what should be an important developmental season in the service of saving a fairly small amount of cap money.

 

[TML fan]

I don't understand all the haste and the "this is bad for the Leafs" talk.

In a best case scenario, and I mean absolute best, the end result here is going to be a player who the Leafs previously thought was very important to their future success missing months of what should be an important developmental season in the service of saving a fairly small amount of cap money.

Clearly Nylander isn't worried about his development so why should you be, and why should the Leafs?

Not signing him yet doesn't mean they don't think he's important. If they thought that, they would have traded him already.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Even when we have nice things, we can't have nice things.

 

[Kin]

Clearly Nylander isn't worried about his development so why should you be, and why should the Leafs?

*Checks notes*

Because as a partisan for the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey club, my interest is in them doing as well as possible. Which, occasionally, supersedes my faith in the wisdom of headstrong 22 year olds.

 

[TML fan]

Clearly Nylander isn't worried about his development so why should you be, and why should the Leafs?

*Checks notes*

Because as a partisan for the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey club, my interest is in them doing as well as possible. Which, occasionally, supersedes my faith in the wisdom of headstrong 22 year olds.

I never figured you the type!

 

[Kin]

I never figured you the type!

"I am large. I contain multitudes."

 

[Peter D.]

I think this was happening whether or not Tavares was signed, and I have no regrets about the Tavares signing.

I have absolutely no regrets with the Tavares signing either -- I was pushing for the Leafs to go all in for him and then worry about the other guys' contracts afterwards.

But I don't think there'd be a months' long stalemate over a few hundred thousand if there wasn't an additional $11 million clogging up the cap.  I can't see any scenario where the Leafs can keep all four by taking up anywhere from $35 to $40 million of the cap combined.

 

[Peter D.]

I have to disagree, I don't see this as Dubas botching anything. How is it Dubas fault that Nylander thinks he is worth more than he is? If Dubas bent over and signed him to 8x8 then it would definately be his fault. Pasternak, Ehlers and Forsberg are all better players and signed for less. I'm pretty sure none of those players would be traded for Nylander straight up.

If Nylander is still holding firm on 8x8 as was speculated months ago, sure, I get it.  But if he's asking for 7 and the team is coming in at 6.3 to 6.6, I don't see how all the blame is on Nylander for the inability to bridge such a gap.

Both sides have been pretty tight-lipped through this all so we really don't know what the numbers are from either side.  As a result, I don't understand why Nylander should be viewed as the unreasonable one in this all and Dubas comes off scot-free. 

 

[herman]

I think this was happening whether or not Tavares was signed, and I have no regrets about the Tavares signing.

I have absolutely no regrets with the Tavares signing either -- I was pushing for the Leafs to go all in for him and then worry about the other guys' contracts afterwards.

But I don't think there'd be a months' long stalemate over a few hundred thousand if there wasn't an additional $11 million clogging up the cap.  I can't see any scenario where the Leafs can keep all four by taking up anywhere from $35 to $40 million of the cap combined.

The problem isn't with Tavares' 11M hit, it's with the Kessel retention and Clarkson/Horton deal and the Marleau overpay (maybe worth it to some extent) and to some degree the Zaitsev deal.

 

[Kin]

The problem isn't with Tavares' 11M hit, it's with the Kessel retention and Clarkson/Horton deal and the Marleau overpay (maybe worth it to some extent) and to some degree the Zaitsev deal.

If only there were some way Dubas could have known about those before signing Tavares.

 

[herman]

The problem isn't with Tavares' 11M hit, it's with the Kessel retention and Clarkson/Horton deal and the Marleau overpay (maybe worth it to some extent) and to some degree the Zaitsev deal.

If only there were some way Dubas could have known about those before signing Tavares.

I've heard he tried to stop several of those in his limited capacity (from Bourne, who is obviously biased).

 

[Kin]

I've heard he tried to stop several of those in his limited capacity (from Bourne, who is obviously biased).

I've got it on excellent authority that he also deserves all the credit for the Nylander pick, none of the blame for the Korshkov pick and actually was the first one to bring back the checked dress shirts.

Point being, he knew what the cap situation was going to be if he signed Tavares.