Contracts for the Big-3

[Highlander]

Hope everyone is enjoying their 31 mediocre team NHL and the super swell salary cap.

Problem is the league can't survive without it. Does the NHL have any form luxury tax like the NBA? and what the heck is a luxury tax anyway?

Perhaps the league should have some sort of rule like the MLS where you have up to three  designated super contracts per team.

 

[Bender]

Hope everyone is enjoying their 31 mediocre team NHL and the super swell salary cap.

I think the teams are better than they were in the 90s. Just play NHL 94 and tell me who's actually a decent player on those teams.

 

[Highlander]

I think the game is night and day better than after the 6 team league disappeared. The lack of obstruction, icing rules, no holding the pucks for face-offs etc have made it an exciting speed game for the most part.  (Excepting the neutral zone trap teams).
The game is indeed faster and better, but I still do miss Brian Glennie's hip checks even thought Dermott handed out a good hit last night. I would love to see more hitting.

 

[cabber24]

Some teams can't even afford the salary cap floor. Markets are not balanced why does the cap have to be? Introduce the luxury tax and give it to lower income teams so they can more easily hit the floor.

 

[IJustLurkHere]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

As far as fan expectations go, maybe, but if you're Dubas right now, you've got a 1 Dec deadline to decide that the Leafs are or are not going to be contenders.

If you decide yes, you need to maximise the assets by either signing or trading Nylander. While it's theoretically possible to both with the argument with Nylander (by letting him sit) and the cup, come playoff time, you want your strongest possible team on the ice.

If you decide no, that may ultimately prove correct, but as I note above, the Leafs are in a great position to add rentals to a really good team. If you take last nights lineup, put Matthews back in, add Nylander, then add (hypothetically) Bouwmeester AND McQuaid on the back end.

You don't have to decide to load up till the trade deadline. However if Nylander is still sitting on Dec 2, any run taken will not be as strong as it could.

 

[Bates]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

As far as fan5 expectations go, maybe, but if you're Dubas right now, you've got a 1 Dec deadline to decide that the Leafs are or are not going to be contenders.

If you decide yes, you need to maximise the assets by either signing or trading Nylander. While it's theoretically possible to both with the argument with Nylander (by letting him sit) and the cup, come playoff time, you want your strongest possible team on the ice.

If you decide no, that may ultimately prove correct, but as I note above, the Leafs are in a great position to add rentals to a really good team. If you take last nights lineup, put Matthews back in, add Nylander, then add (hypothetically) Bouwmeester AND McQuaid on the back end.

You don't have to decide to load up till the trade deadline. However if Nylander is still sitting on Dec 2, any run taken will not be as strong as it could.

What about if you also added a Panarin if Nylander Isn't signed?? Is the chance better or worse? How about Stone? Eric Staal? So many possibilities that I'm not sure we need to give up if Nylander doesn't sign.

 

[sickbeast]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

As far as fan5 expectations go, maybe, but if you're Dubas right now, you've got a 1 Dec deadline to decide that the Leafs are or are not going to be contenders.

If you decide yes, you need to maximise the assets by either signing or trading Nylander. While it's theoretically possible to both with the argument with Nylander (by letting him sit) and the cup, come playoff time, you want your strongest possible team on the ice.

If you decide no, that may ultimately prove correct, but as I note above, the Leafs are in a great position to add rentals to a really good team. If you take last nights lineup, put Matthews back in, add Nylander, then add (hypothetically) Bouwmeester AND McQuaid on the back end.

You don't have to decide to load up till the trade deadline. However if Nylander is still sitting on Dec 2, any run taken will not be as strong as it could.

What about if you also added a Panarin if Nylander Isn't signed?? Is the chance better or worse? How about Stone? Eric Staal? So many possibilities that I'm not sure we need to give up if Nylander doesn't sign.

How is it premature to talk about the cup when before the season started the Leafs were the betting favorites to win it this year?  And that was without Nylander even signed yet.

 

[Bates]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

As far as fan5 expectations go, maybe, but if you're Dubas right now, you've got a 1 Dec deadline to decide that the Leafs are or are not going to be contenders.

If you decide yes, you need to maximise the assets by either signing or trading Nylander. While it's theoretically possible to both with the argument with Nylander (by letting him sit) and the cup, come playoff time, you want your strongest possible team on the ice.

If you decide no, that may ultimately prove correct, but as I note above, the Leafs are in a great position to add rentals to a really good team. If you take last nights lineup, put Matthews back in, add Nylander, then add (hypothetically) Bouwmeester AND McQuaid on the back end.

You don't have to decide to load up till the trade deadline. However if Nylander is still sitting on Dec 2, any run taken will not be as strong as it could.

What about if you also added a Panarin if Nylander Isn't signed?? Is the chance better or worse? How about Stone? Eric Staal? So many possibilities that I'm not sure we need to give up if Nylander doesn't sign.

How is it premature to talk about the cup when before the season started the Leafs were the betting favorites to win it this year?  And that was without Nylander even signed yet.

No idea why I was quoted with this question???

 

[sickbeast]

It looks to me like this could turn into a high stakes game of chicken.  Who do you guys think has more to lose?  Nylander with his ~$7 million sacrificed by sitting out for the season, or the Leafs with this potentially costing them the Stanley Cup?

That's quite the stretch there.

Is it though? We?ve gotten used to every decision in Leafsland being about the long term, but let us look at this year in isolation for a moment.

The Leafs are 8-5, and when healthy have an amazing offence, great PP, solid goaltending... and cap space to burn. They also have a lot of middling prospects which along with draft picks can be turned into rental defensemen.

Next year the Leafs will be good... but cap crunch hits and it will be MUCH more tactical to acquire pieces.

If the Leafs aren?t thinking of taking a run this year, they?re wasting possibly the best opportunity they?ll have for ~5 years when the next batch of kids are maturing to complement the strong core they have built.

No one said anything about taking a run but speaking about the Stanley Cup is very premature.

Let's look at it realistically. The Leafs are 8 and 5. From those 13 games we've a seen a team spend a good chunk of time in their own end, a goalie that generally gives up one suspect goal a game, and an offence that has gone into hibernation at the first sign of other teams adjusting their game plans towards the team. The PP has also struggled mightily since teams have been aggressive on the Leaf players.

Like I said, it's a real stretch to start talking about the Stanley Cup.

As far as fan5 expectations go, maybe, but if you're Dubas right now, you've got a 1 Dec deadline to decide that the Leafs are or are not going to be contenders.

If you decide yes, you need to maximise the assets by either signing or trading Nylander. While it's theoretically possible to both with the argument with Nylander (by letting him sit) and the cup, come playoff time, you want your strongest possible team on the ice.

If you decide no, that may ultimately prove correct, but as I note above, the Leafs are in a great position to add rentals to a really good team. If you take last nights lineup, put Matthews back in, add Nylander, then add (hypothetically) Bouwmeester AND McQuaid on the back end.

You don't have to decide to load up till the trade deadline. However if Nylander is still sitting on Dec 2, any run taken will not be as strong as it could.

What about if you also added a Panarin if Nylander Isn't signed?? Is the chance better or worse? How about Stone? Eric Staal? So many possibilities that I'm not sure we need to give up if Nylander doesn't sign.

How is it premature to talk about the cup when before the season started the Leafs were the betting favorites to win it this year?  And that was without Nylander even signed yet.

No idea why I was quoted with this question???

I'm baiting you.

Just kidding.  I quoted you to keep the conversation going.  Not that I was referencing you necessarily.  I was talking to OldTimeHockey.  He's old school I guess?  Worried that we are going to jinx things if we talk about the cup now?

 

[Phileas Fogg]

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

There already is a mediator. Unfortunately it's Micheal Nylander.

I can't help but wonder if part of the reason that this has stretched so long is Marner and Matthews' start, particularly Marner's. I have a feeling that both these players have "rebudgeted" their cap hit, and with practically no secondary scoring in the lineup and an average to below average defense (prior to losing Gardiner, I would assume)- Dubas is getting a glimpse into how an extremely top-heavy cap structure is going to look on the ice, especially on the back end, and when injuries hit. He can't afford to capitulate due to the snowball effect on the other two which already will start at a higher number than perhaps expected.

 

[L K]

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

That's actually an interesting suggestion. There was an article the other week about how this could have all been avoided if the league gave arbitration rights to guys in Nylander's position. Either by having the contract decided there or by putting an earlier deadline on the two parties to figure something out themselves.

The other thing is there is a lot of "this is Michael Nylander and his agents fault" stuff going around.  Maybe it's William knowing what he feels his value is and sticking to his guns.  Maybe it's Dubas being unreasonable in negotiations. We haven't seen contracts from him yet to see if he's going to be remotely competent as an NHL GM outside of the Tavares signing and while we got him cheaper than San Jose I think playing for Toronto played a huge role there. 

Dubas is the one who boasted about signing everyone and here we sit in November with none of them under a new deal and one player held out.  Maybe it's time to start looking inward instead of just blaming everything on Nylander's party.

 

[Frank E]

There are only a couple of things that we know for sure:

1.  Nylander doesn't like the current Leafs offer.
2.  The Leafs don't like the current Nylander ask.

Given this, I don't think you can assign any blame or responsibility for the lack of a deal to either party without knowing a lot more about the circumstances.  And really, given this is a negotiation, Nylander's camp is trying to get the most he can, and the Leafs are trying to pay the least they can. 

Both sides have done a great job of keeping this negotiation under wraps, so I think that any suggestion around here that one party is being unfair is a little silly given that I haven't read any evidence of any impropriety or manipulation.

 

[herman]

There are only a couple of things that we know for sure:

1.  Nylander doesn't like the current Leafs offer.
2.  The Leafs don't like the current Nylander ask.

Given this, I don't think you can assign any blame or responsibility for the lack of a deal to either party without knowing a lot more about the circumstances.  And really, given this is a negotiation, Nylander's camp is trying to get the most he can, and the Leafs are trying to pay the least they can. 

Both sides have done a great job of keeping this negotiation under wraps, so I think that any suggestion around here that one party is being unfair is a little silly given that I haven't read any evidence of any impropriety or manipulation.

This

 

[Bill_Berg]

I blame myself.

 

[Bullfrog]

With the money they're talking about, I wonder if they've considered a mediator.

That's actually an interesting suggestion. There was an article the other week about how this could have all been avoided if the league gave arbitration rights to guys in Nylander's position. Either by having the contract decided there or by putting an earlier deadline on the two parties to figure something out themselves.

Good suggestion, a mediator would be a great idea although the Leaf management team may feel usurped by introducing the concept.  Seems there is time for some arbitration changes.

To be clear, I was suggesting a mediator, not an arbitrator. Though some consideration for an arbitration rights might be worthwhile.

 

[sickbeast]

Guys, just answer me this question.  Why on earth would Nylander not take say $7 million over 8 years before the season started, but then now suddenly accept it after he has already sacrificed ~$1 million in lost salary?  It makes absolutely no sense.

I can see the Leafs' motivation because it gives them future cap space.  But for Nylander it's a real head scratcher.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Guys, just answer me this question.  Why on earth would Nylander not take say $7 million over 8 years before the season started, but then now suddenly accept it after he has already sacrificed ~$1 million in lost salary?  It makes absolutely no sense.

One possibility would be that the Leafs weren't offering $7 million over 8 years before the season started. Maybe they were, but we really don't know that (and any reports that we did have suggested the Leafs offers were under $7mil).

 

[Frank E]

Guys, just answer me this question.  Why on earth would Nylander not take say $7 million over 8 years before the season started, but then now suddenly accept it after he has already sacrificed ~$1 million in lost salary?  It makes absolutely no sense.

I can see the Leafs' motivation because it gives them future cap space.  But for Nylander it's a real head scratcher.

In this hypothetical situation, Nylander may have then come to the conclusion that he couldn't get a better deal than that done, even after trying really hard and missing part of the season, so he decided to sign that contract.

 

[L K]

There are only a couple of things that we know for sure:

1.  Nylander doesn't like the current Leafs offer.
2.  The Leafs don't like the current Nylander ask.

Given this, I don't think you can assign any blame or responsibility for the lack of a deal to either party without knowing a lot more about the circumstances.  And really, given this is a negotiation, Nylander's camp is trying to get the most he can, and the Leafs are trying to pay the least they can. 

Both sides have done a great job of keeping this negotiation under wraps, so I think that any suggestion around here that one party is being unfair is a little silly given that I haven't read any evidence of any impropriety or manipulation.

This

Just to be fair I was only posting to push the other side because I constantly see people blaming Nylander?s agent/his Dad.  There are two parties here with a disagreement.  I think the job of a GM is to find a way around those issues but no I don?t blame a Dubas or Nylander here. 

 

[princedpw]

There are only a couple of things that we know for sure:

1.  Nylander doesn't like the current Leafs offer.
2.  The Leafs don't like the current Nylander ask.

Given this, I don't think you can assign any blame or responsibility for the lack of a deal to either party without knowing a lot more about the circumstances.  And really, given this is a negotiation, Nylander's camp is trying to get the most he can, and the Leafs are trying to pay the least they can. 

Both sides have done a great job of keeping this negotiation under wraps, so I think that any suggestion around here that one party is being unfair is a little silly given that I haven't read any evidence of any impropriety or manipulation.

+1