Coronavirus

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/l_stone/status/1329890668974575619

As expected, Toronto and Peel move into a 28-day lockdown starting Monday.

 

[Kin]

https://twitter.com/thatalicewu/status/1330287079708893184

 

[Bender]

https://twitter.com/thatalicewu/status/1330287079708893184

It's funny how western countries are making excuses for why it can't work here rather than putting in the work and aiming for what they've achieved. It just goes to show how bad some of our political philosophy can be in times of crisis where we all need to be on the same page. The pain we're going through and will continue to go through is linked with being so focussed on the individual to the detriment of society as a whole.

I'm not sure what the correct term for that would be. It's kind of like tragedy of the commons but not exactly.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/thatalicewu/status/1330287079708893184

It's funny how western countries are making excuses for why it can't work here rather than putting in the work and aiming for what they've achieved. It just goes to show how bad some of our political philosophy can be in times of crisis where we all need to be on the same page. The pain we're going through and will continue to go through is linked with being so focussed on the individual to the detriment of society as a whole.

I'm not sure what the correct term for that would be. It's kind of like tragedy of the commons but not exactly.

Individualism vs collectivism

Many Americans in the comments seem to be more horrified of yielding personal privacy to the government than of treating the virus as if it did not exist. To be fair, I would not trust most American governments to be competent either. They did not have as much an issue with the Patriot Act for some reason.

 

[Joe S.]

What I don?t understand is how wearing a mask is an affront to freedom but wearing a seatbelt or a helmet is all good.

When seatbelt legislation was introduced was there this kind of backlash?

 

[louisstamos]

There was!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nkn5Fk-yss

edit: this one is even better: https://www.facebook.com/cbcedmonton/videos/1121792491195927.  A lot of the reasons they use for not wanting to use seat belts are going to sound familiar.

 

[Joe S.]

Wow. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think there's still states without helmet laws. And some religious exemptions in the provinces up here.

Regardless, the key difference is that mask wearing affect other people's health directly, not just one's own.

 

[Kin]

It's funny how western countries are making excuses for why it can't work here rather than putting in the work and aiming for what they've achieved. It just goes to show how bad some of our political philosophy can be in times of crisis where we all need to be on the same page. The pain we're going through and will continue to go through is linked with being so focussed on the individual to the detriment of society as a whole.

I'm not sure what the correct term for that would be. It's kind of like tragedy of the commons but not exactly.

Individualism vs collectivism

Many Americans in the comments seem to be more horrified of yielding personal privacy to the government than of treating the virus as if it did not exist. To be fair, I would not trust most American governments to be competent either. They did not have as much an issue with the Patriot Act for some reason.

I think it's just one of the ways a central right wing talking point has infected our public discourse despite being bull crap.

I often cite the LCBO as a perfect example as a fair disagreement between political philosophies, where wanting to restrict and control the sale of alcohol by government regulation clashes against a very fair question of what right does a government have to have a monopoly on the sale of a valuable product. I think there are fair arguments on both sides.

The problem, at least for people on the right, is that the majority of citizens tend to come down on the side of whether or not something works, regardless of their abstract political ideologies. So to win more of those arguments, Right Wingers stopped arguing as to whether or not government should control more of our lives and started arguing that Government was, in addition to overstepping their boundaries, also very bad at what they did. Fouling up everything with incompetence on top of bureaucracy.

Of course, none of that is true. The government can actually be pretty good at doing things. We have good mass transit systems and public broadcasting networks and generally safe food to eat. The LCBO and Canada Post work well. Perfectly? No. But that's true of any large organization, public or private. 

And the reality is that this nonsense about government being less competent or efficient than private industry is really starting to hold our country back. If you look at some of the things being accomplished in countries where they're not afraid of infrastructure investment you see projects of incredible scope and size being completed.

The vaccines we'll probably have next year are proof positive that when people put their heads together for the common good really incredible things can be accomplished. Even a bare modicum of faith in your fellow countrymen should lead you to a point of believing that large scale initiatives directed by a government by, for and of those same people can accomplish really transformative things. Massive achievements could be made in curtailing drug addiction or hunger or homelessness if those could be our focus without caring if some banker was also seeing his cut of things.

 

[Highlander]

I think there's still states without helmet laws. And some religious exemptions in the provinces up here.

Regardless, the key difference is that mask wearing affect other people's health directly, not just one's own.

AZ is one of the States with no helmet laws, weird to see so many people with nothing on their noggins riding around.

 

[herman]

I think it's just one of the ways a central right wing talking point has infected our public discourse despite being bull crap.

I often cite the LCBO as a perfect example as a fair disagreement between political philosophies, where wanting to restrict and control the sale of alcohol by government regulation clashes against a very fair question of what right does a government have to have a monopoly on the sale of a valuable product. I think there are fair arguments on both sides.

The problem, at least for people on the right, is that the majority of citizens tend to come down on the side of whether or not something works, regardless of their abstract political ideologies. So to win more of those arguments, Right Wingers stopped arguing as to whether or not government should control more of our lives and started arguing that Government was, in addition to overstepping their boundaries, also very bad at what they did. Fouling up everything with incompetence on top of bureaucracy.

Of course, none of that is true. The government can actually be pretty good at doing things. We have good mass transit systems and public broadcasting networks and generally safe food to eat. The LCBO and Canada Post work well. Perfectly? No. But that's true of any large organization, public or private. 

And the reality is that this nonsense about government being less competent or efficient than private industry is really starting to hold our country back. If you look at some of the things being accomplished in countries where they're not afraid of infrastructure investment you see projects of incredible scope and size being completed.

The vaccines we'll probably have next year are proof positive that when people put their heads together for the common good really incredible things can be accomplished. Even a bare modicum of faith in your fellow countrymen should lead you to a point of believing that large scale initiatives directed by a government by, for and of those same people can accomplish really transformative things. Massive achievements could be made in curtailing drug addiction or hunger or homelessness if those could be our focus without caring if some banker was also seeing his cut of things.

I agree in large part. My consternation is that many key governing roles have been appointed with exactly the wrong people.

Big pharma and big agriculture and big oil and big data and big banks and the Religious Right and the Military Industrial Complex have sunk their roots in sooo deep into infrastructure and regulating bodies for decades that it'd take a solid scouring to affect lasting change.

 

[Kin]

I think you'll find that most political appointees can be flushed pretty quickly if the will is there. There's still a good foundation of a competent civil service underneath.

 

[Bender]

It's funny how western countries are making excuses for why it can't work here rather than putting in the work and aiming for what they've achieved. It just goes to show how bad some of our political philosophy can be in times of crisis where we all need to be on the same page. The pain we're going through and will continue to go through is linked with being so focussed on the individual to the detriment of society as a whole.

I'm not sure what the correct term for that would be. It's kind of like tragedy of the commons but not exactly.

Individualism vs collectivism

Many Americans in the comments seem to be more horrified of yielding personal privacy to the government than of treating the virus as if it did not exist. To be fair, I would not trust most American governments to be competent either. They did not have as much an issue with the Patriot Act for some reason.

I think it's just one of the ways a central right wing talking point has infected our public discourse despite being bull crap.

I often cite the LCBO as a perfect example as a fair disagreement between political philosophies, where wanting to restrict and control the sale of alcohol by government regulation clashes against a very fair question of what right does a government have to have a monopoly on the sale of a valuable product. I think there are fair arguments on both sides.

The problem, at least for people on the right, is that the majority of citizens tend to come down on the side of whether or not something works, regardless of their abstract political ideologies. So to win more of those arguments, Right Wingers stopped arguing as to whether or not government should control more of our lives and started arguing that Government was, in addition to overstepping their boundaries, also very bad at what they did. Fouling up everything with incompetence on top of bureaucracy.

Of course, none of that is true. The government can actually be pretty good at doing things. We have good mass transit systems and public broadcasting networks and generally safe food to eat. The LCBO and Canada Post work well. Perfectly? No. But that's true of any large organization, public or private. 

And the reality is that this nonsense about government being less competent or efficient than private industry is really starting to hold our country back. If you look at some of the things being accomplished in countries where they're not afraid of infrastructure investment you see projects of incredible scope and size being completed.

The vaccines we'll probably have next year are proof positive that when people put their heads together for the common good really incredible things can be accomplished. Even a bare modicum of faith in your fellow countrymen should lead you to a point of believing that large scale initiatives directed by a government by, for and of those same people can accomplish really transformative things. Massive achievements could be made in curtailing drug addiction or hunger or homelessness if those could be our focus without caring if some banker was also seeing his cut of things.

Just thinking of a few US examples - The Hoover Freaking Dam, The US Interstate System, Landing on the moon. I mean there are things that I think government has an inside track on doing, especially when it is for the public benefit (parks?) that don't necessarily turn a profit that wouldn't be worth the time by private enterprise but still enriches our lives in a way that goes beyond just profit. And beyond that, there are also plenty of benefits to public/private partnerships as we've seen with the vaccine process thus far.

 

[Joe S.]

I think there's still states without helmet laws. And some religious exemptions in the provinces up here.

Regardless, the key difference is that mask wearing affect other people's health directly, not just one's own.

Sure - like no smoking areas is a perfect example.

 

[princedpw]

I think there's still states without helmet laws. And some religious exemptions in the provinces up here.

Regardless, the key difference is that mask wearing affect other people's health directly, not just one's own.

Sure - like no smoking areas is a perfect example.

Also, no drinking and driving.  We make laws all the time that protect people in one way or another.  Wearing a mask is way less inconvenient than not being able to drive home drunk from a party.  I mean, that?s really a drag! But you, know, not killing people makes it worthwhile.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Took my dad about a month ago.

 

[herman]

Sorry for your loss, WIGWAL

 

[Kin]

Really sorry to hear that WIGWAL. Hope you and your family are doing as best as you can in difficult circumstances.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Damn, sorry WIGWAL.

 

[Bender]

Took my dad about a month ago.

That's awful. Sorry man, my thoughts are with you and your family.