David Clarkson - Signs with Maple Leafs

[Kin]

Darn tootin'.  I've got a case of Confirmation Bias that's off the charts.

(Also, I meant to insert a rolly-eyes after my question.  That's a crazy thing to say.)

Well, that or it's not meant to be taken as literally as "being good in the dressing room is more important than his skill as a hockey player".

 

[ZBBM]

Darn tootin'.  I've got a case of Confirmation Bias that's off the charts.

(Also, I meant to insert a rolly-eyes after my question.  That's a crazy thing to say.)

Well, that or it's not meant to be taken as literally as "being good in the dressing room is more important than his skill as a hockey player".

I like to hold people accountable for saying what they mean, and v.v.  Especially when the context is more literal than metaphorical, which I would venture to say this one is.  So I vote for "crazy."

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Loiselle: "the dressing room is the most important thing and that is where Clarkson's impact will be felt"

I personally was hoping it would be on the ice, but hey.

Did Loiselle really say that? 

I take it as a veiled reference to Phaneuf having the C ripped from his jersey and given to Clarkson.

Well if you believe something it's possible to find almost anything you want in a quote.

Darn tootin'.  I've got a case of Confirmation Bias that's off the charts.

(Also, I meant to insert a rolly-eyes after my question.  That's a crazy thing to say.)

I didn't take it too seriously, no worries.

 

[ZBBM]

Loiselle: "the dressing room is the most important thing and that is where Clarkson's impact will be felt"

I personally was hoping it would be on the ice, but hey.

Did Loiselle really say that? 

I take it as a veiled reference to Phaneuf having the C ripped from his jersey and given to Clarkson.

Well if you believe something it's possible to find almost anything you want in a quote.

Darn tootin'.  I've got a case of Confirmation Bias that's off the charts.

(Also, I meant to insert a rolly-eyes after my question.  That's a crazy thing to say.)

I didn't take it too seriously, no worries.

I figured as much, cheers.

Now I think I'll mosey on over to the sens thread to discuss how they screwed themselves out of Silfverberg and somebody else and a 1st to obtain a player who seems to have a sketchy attitude. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Loiselle: "the dressing room is the most important thing and that is where Clarkson's impact will be felt"

I personally was hoping it would be on the ice, but hey.

Did Loiselle really say that? 

I take it as a veiled reference to Phaneuf having the C ripped from his jersey and given to Clarkson.

Well if you believe something it's possible to find almost anything you want in a quote.

Darn tootin'.  I've got a case of Confirmation Bias that's off the charts.

(Also, I meant to insert a rolly-eyes after my question.  That's a crazy thing to say.)

I didn't take it too seriously, no worries.

I figured as much, cheers.

Now I think I'll mosey on over to the sens thread to discuss how they screwed themselves out of Silfverberg and somebody else and a 1st to obtain a player who seems to have a sketchy attitude.

You mean we don't have to go back and forth debating inane things and devolving the discussion away from the original point just to feed our egos needing the last word?

I tip my cap.

 

[Rebel_1812]

I am reduced to hoping for this.  If the cap goes back to $70 million next year and $80 million a few years after that, I'll be ok.

Or you could hope that Clarkson plays really well and is worth the cap hit.

Sure. But more likely it'll go like this: those who liked Grabbo's production at $5.5m will love Clarkson's $5.25m.

He'll hit more people though.

And whenever I think of that as an inherent virtue, I find myself flashing back to Tucker laying out Sami Kapanen...

First off, I'm thrilled to have my health back to a point where I have the energy/enthusiasm to post on the internet again, because it's very fun discussing these things on here with you guys.

In his two seasons prior to this awful season, Grabbo was a high 20's goal scorer and high 50's point producer. Clarkson's offense is incredibly one dimensional, he can't pass worth a damn, only 46 points last year despite 30 goals, and only 9 assists this year.

Grabbo was also a terrific two way player, was in the top two on the team in Corsi three years in a row prior to his season, and in those three years he lead the team in +-, was third on the team in +- but second among forwards, and fifth on the team in +_ among players not counting a couple of call ups that played a few games.  He also put up those numbers while often playing against the other teams top lines. Now those kind of stats don't always mean a lot, but when you are putting up those corsi numbers and +- numbers three years in a row it's clearly not a coincidence.

I don't know how you can call clarkson a one dimensional and not Grabbo.  Grabbo was a puck hog which is why he rarely played with kessel.  Also Clarkson played from New Jersey so he knows how to play defense.

 

[PG]

Months ago on the Colin Cowherd show, he had an NBA agent on as a guest. The agent candidly said that letting leak the whole "he took less money to come here" was standard procedure to endear the new player to the fans and that in his estimation it was a lie 80% of the time.

Not saying Clarkson didn't, but I take that with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Kin]

So here's the way I'm looking at it and, ok, maybe it's a little rose coloured glasses-y but anyways:

Would people be upset at Clarkson at 4 years/16 million? I doubt it. That might be a bit on the high side but realistically he was never coming in for any less than that. So does the extra 1.25 million and three years change the contract from being pretty good to terrible?

It's hard to see. The contracts that we've seen that are real boat anchors aren't the ones that end when a guy is 36. They're the ones that end at 40+. Honestly, I see the Clarkson contract right now a lot like I saw the Grabovski contract a week ago. Yeah, too much, yeah too much term but provided that Clarkson can be even 75% of what people want him to be I'm pretty convinced that he'd be tradable.

Now, let's be real, a team can't have too many guys making a million or such more than they should and still be in good cap territory but one or two can work and, yeah, the term sucks but realistically when you start getting into years 5,6 and 7 of this contract the cap will be at a spot where a 5.25 million dollar salary is roughly the same percentage of the cap as a 4 million dollar salary is today.

 

[moon111]

I think he'll fit in with Kadri perfectly.  Hate to say it, but I wanted the team to change.  The goals-against cut deeper and deeper every year.  No more run-and-gun... no more Grabovski.  I can't complain, this is what I was asking for.

 

[slapshot]

Like the player, but we are going to regret this contract big time in a couple of years.

Clarkson is 29, I am quite doubtful about his effectivity at 35....

I am not and love this signing. I am not concerned about the price or the term. He is a health nut like Gary Roberts. Over the past 6 six years with NJ, apart from an injury one year, he's been an iron man playing in almost every game. Goes to the net, something absolutely huge for winning teams. Battles in the corners, basically a warrior. Think Darcy Tucker with a bit more size. Tucker never once scored 30, hit his peak 28 goals at age 30. Clarkson scored 30 (probably his peak) at 27. Like Tucker, Leaf fans will love this guy. Plus he's psyched, a life-long Leafs fan, home town boy, who envisioned his game like Wendel Clark. Every commentator that talked about this today basically raved about what he'd bring to the Leafs. I never heard a single dissenter. I got pretty well crapped on for posting the Leafs should buy out Grabbo and resign Bozak (at the right price), but this is a solid upgrade for a team actually interested in building a championship team.

 

[slapshot]

I am reduced to hoping for this.  If the cap goes back to $70 million next year and $80 million a few years after that, I'll be ok.

Or you could hope that Clarkson plays really well and is worth the cap hit.

Sure. But more likely it'll go like this: those who liked Grabbo's production at $5.5m will love Clarkson's $5.25m.

He'll hit more people though.

And whenever I think of that as an inherent virtue, I find myself flashing back to Tucker laying out Sami Kapanen...

First off, I'm thrilled to have my health back to a point where I have the energy/enthusiasm to post on the internet again, because it's very fun discussing these things on here with you guys.

In his two seasons prior to this awful season, Grabbo was a high 20's goal scorer and high 50's point producer. Clarkson's offense is incredibly one dimensional, he can't pass worth a damn, only 46 points last year despite 30 goals, and only 9 assists this year.

Grabbo was also a terrific two way player, was in the top two on the team in Corsi three years in a row prior to his season, and in those three years he lead the team in +-, was third on the team in +- but second among forwards, and fifth on the team in +_ among players not counting a couple of call ups that played a few games.  He also put up those numbers while often playing against the other teams top lines. Now those kind of stats don't always mean a lot, but when you are putting up those corsi numbers and +- numbers three years in a row it's clearly not a coincidence.

I don't know how you can call clarkson a one dimensional and not Grabbo.  Grabbo was a puck hog which is why he rarely played with kessel.  Also Clarkson played from New Jersey so he knows how to play defense.

\

Nailed it.

 

[mr grieves]

Like the player, but we are going to regret this contract big time in a couple of years.

Clarkson is 29, I am quite doubtful about his effectivity at 35....

I am not and love this signing. I am not concerned about the price or the term. He is a health nut like Gary Roberts. Over the past 6 six years with NJ, apart from an injury one year, he's been an iron man playing in almost every game. Goes to the net, something absolutely huge for winning teams. Battles in the corners, basically a warrior. Think Darcy Tucker with a bit more size. Tucker never once scored 30, hit his peak 28 goals at age 30. Clarkson scored 30 (probably his peak) at 27. Like Tucker, Leaf fans will love this guy. Plus he's psyched, a life-long Leafs fan, home town boy, who envisioned his game like Wendel Clark. Every commentator that talked about this today basically raved about what he'd bring to the Leafs. I never heard a single dissenter. I got pretty well crapped on for posting the Leafs should buy out Grabbo and resign Bozak (at the right price), but this is a solid upgrade for a team actually interested in building a championship team.

Tucker was, I think you'll recall, bought out by the Leafs at 32, and out of the league before Clarkson's contract is up...

 

[Steel_Wind]

To judge Clarkson's point production on the 2nd lowest scoring team in the NHL last year (NJD =112, NashV=111) is hardly fair. Unlike the Devils, the Leafs were the fifth highest scoring team in the league. His numbers will improve -- and probably significantly -- at that. Nonis' comments today at the press conference were aimed at managing expectations. A significant contract in this city carries expectations which can quickly turn into a burden.

So Clarkson may not be Gary Roberts, but if he is playing on a line with 2 of Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Kadri and Lupal, he is going to score 40 points just for being there. If he goes to the Net, he'll get 20 goals with being fed the puck by his linemates.

I'm not a fan of the term either, but it appears he was being offered 35+ for seven years from Edmonton at one point. He took a hometown haircut to stay equal to Lupal, but asking him to take only five years amounted to asking him to leave as much as 6 or 7 million on the table. He wasn't going to do that - and it's not fair to expect that he should.

Practically speaking, if the cap shoots back up and Clarkson achieves a fair to middlin success in Toronto, he's tradeable at that salary at age 32.

To be blunt, if the term proves to be a problem, it's not likely to manifest until the 2018-19 season. By then, the problem is unlikely to be Dave Nonis' to fix. It will be the NEXT GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs to deal with, whoever that may be at that time.

Unlike many here, I think re-signing Bozak was the RIGHT thing to do. The price and term were fair. I do hope that Nonis AND Carlyle turn their minds to solving one thing this year that plagued us last: the shootout. Only Bozak scored on the shootout last year. If we had turned half of those games the other way and walked away with the extra point (and denied it to the victors) we would have had home ice adv against Boston. We have Detroit in our division next year and making the playoffs again is NOT guaranteed.

I hate the shootout as much as anyone -- and more than most. But it's in the rules. We need to be able to win at least half of those SO games. Anything less is unacceptable and may threaten the Leafs date for the post-season dance. The Leafs have got to fix this and make it SOME kind of priority -- and not the afterthought it seems to be.

Because right now, the only thing the Leafs have done to address that problem is re-sign Bozak and hope that Bernier is a much better SO goalie than Rimes. That *might* be enough, but I doubt it.

 

[Peter D.]

What I had a buddy from Vancouver tell me about this deal:

"...and Leaf fans scoffed at Luongo's contract during trade talks."

I had to chuckle because there is some truth to that.

 

[bustaheims]

To judge Clarkson's point production on the 2nd lowest scoring team in the NHL last year (NJD =112, NashV=111) is hardly fair. Unlike the Devils, the Leafs were the fifth highest scoring team in the league. His numbers will improve -- and probably significantly -- at that.

This is very much a chicken and egg argument - were Clarkson's numbers poor because he played for a poor offensive team or were the Devils a poor offensive team because they relied on guys like Clarkson to provide offence? I'd lead towards the latter, since, in previous seasons, the Devils offence wasn't consistently that bad, while Clarkson's season to season numbers, outside of his 30 goal season in 11/12, have been pretty consistently in the "good 3rd liner" range.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

What I had a buddy from Vancouver tell me about this deal:

"...and Leaf fans scoffed at Luongo's contract during trade talks."

I had to chuckle because there is some truth to that.

Except Luongo's contract was only half the story in trade talks. The other very significant half was that Gillis was looking for multiple significant assets from the team taking on Luongo's contract.

Your buddy can speak up if Nonis tries to trade Clarkson for multiple young and valuable assets.

 

[Kin]

What I had a buddy from Vancouver tell me about this deal:

"...and Leaf fans scoffed at Luongo's contract during trade talks."

I had to chuckle because there is some truth to that.

Yeah, I mean, ignore the fact that for Clarkson's contract to take him to the age Luongo will be when his contract runs out the Leafs would have had to have doubled the term of the deal they gave him today and yeah, very similar.

 

[mr grieves]

What I had a buddy from Vancouver tell me about this deal:

"...and Leaf fans scoffed at Luongo's contract during trade talks."

I had to chuckle because there is some truth to that.

Yeah, I mean, ignore the fact that for Clarkson's contract to take him to the age Luongo will be when his contract runs out the Leafs would have had to have doubled the term of the deal they gave him today and yeah, very similar.

It does seem to acknowledge that the two deals were signed under different CBAs and that forwards aren't paid like starting goaltenders.

A quick scroll down capgeek's recent contracts tells me these are the bigger contracts signed by UFAs today:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Nathan Horton -- 7 x $5.3M
[*]
[/list]

 

[Kin]

It does seem to acknowledge that the two deals were signed under different CBAs and that forwards aren't paid like starting goaltenders.

A quick scroll down capgeek's recent contracts tells me these are the bigger contracts signed by UFAs today:
[list type=decimal]
[*]Nathan Horton -- 7 x $5.3M
[*]
[/list]

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

 

[MetalRaven]

You know what intangible I like best about Clarkson? His eyes are always open....I mean like ALWAYS...i dont think he has eyelids.