Deadline day thread

[cw]

$2mil? eehhhhhh. Maybe call it $1mil for Weiss, 1st rounder and a prospect. That would be the absolute minimum package I would accept. If we're eating money AND taking a contract back Phaneuf should have pretty good value. I would probably prefer to just not retain anything and take a smaller package in return.

I'd give him away for nothing because I think you can get or develop a comparable talent for $4-5 mil/yr over the life of his deal.

Weber, Suter, Chara, Pietrangelo & Karlsson are at in the $6.5 - $7.x vicinity of contract/year.

Think anyone would be fussing over taking money back for them if they were on the block? Nope. The GMS would be tossing 1st rounders like drunks and snatching them up with little debate.

So that's the problem. He's being paid like a top dman but he isn't and at his age, he won't be.

 

[ZBBM]

If the Leafs were to retain $2 mil of Phaneuf's salary, that means Det is getting him at below market value. So the package coming back would have to be a lot better than what I'm seeing listed. Especially if we have to take on Weiss.

It's likely the last 2 or 3 years of Phaneuf's contract that scare teams. If his deal was shorter he'd be a lot more attractive.

Why do GMs do deals over 5 years?  It's insane.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Brendan Smith - 26 year old with a career high of 19 points? 

Well that was literally his only full (71 gms) NHL season and he doesn't play the PP, so (without knowing more about him) points probably isn't the best way to judge him.

 

[cw]

So in that hypothetical deal the Leafs ship out Phaneuf and his 7M in contract and take back 2M in retention, 4.9M in Weiss and a fairly mediocre player in Brendan Smith.  Yeah, no thanks.

I don't think the combination is on the table.

I read it as:
"pay $2 mil of his contract / year"
or
"take Weiss off our hands"

"and if you do either of those, we'll compensate you with some young talent like Bredan Smith"

And I think that's close to fair market value for Dion & his contract.

 

[Kin]

I know the people who carry his water will attribute this to all of the media "bashing" or teams thinking they can buy low on him but the response to Phaneuf being available is a pretty loud statement on all of that "Phaneuf is a real #1 defenseman!" stuff.

 

[rdowdall]

Brendan Smith - 26 year old with a career high of 19 points? 

And Weiss - a 30+ centre with 19 points and term?

And they are asking us to retain salary too?

This can't be the deal for Dion Phaneuf - can it?  If so, I keep him.

What worries me is what the Leafs gave up to get him wasn't the most earth shattering package either, and in that deal the leafs also got Sjostrom and a prospect with Dion.  It may be a case of overvaluing Dion

 

[ZBBM]

I know the people who carry his water will attribute this to all of the media "bashing" or teams thinking they can buy low on him but the response to Phaneuf being available is a pretty loud statement on all of that "Phaneuf is a real #1 defenseman!" stuff.

Exactly.  We're not the only ones who've been watching him closely. 

 

[Chris]

I know the people who carry his water will attribute this to all of the media "bashing" or teams thinking they can buy low on him but the response to Phaneuf being available is a pretty loud statement on all of that "Phaneuf is a real #1 defenseman!" stuff.

It may just be that this is the wrong time of year to try to move him. Maybe better during the summer.

 

[L K]

So in usual Trade Deadline fashion, this has been a dud so far.  I have a gap in my schedule for an hour right now.  Something needs to happen.  I'm getting bored.

 

[Kin]

It may just be that this is the wrong time of year to try to move him. Maybe better during the summer.

That might, and key word might, be a factor but that's not it. If Phaneuf were what some people liked to claim, one of the top 20 defensemen in the league, teams would be seriously interested and offering real assets regardless of when he was available.

 

[Frank E]

If the return is as reported, then I think Phaneuf is more valuable to the team right now.

I'm not sure there should be much urgency here.  It's not like the Leafs are going to have a cap issue, and it's not likely Phaneuf will regress much, if at all.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

$2mil? eehhhhhh. Maybe call it $1mil for Weiss, 1st rounder and a prospect. That would be the absolute minimum package I would accept. If we're eating money AND taking a contract back Phaneuf should have pretty good value. I would probably prefer to just not retain anything and take a smaller package in return.

I'd give him away for nothing because I think you can get or develop a comparable talent for $4-5 mil/yr over the life of his deal.

Weber, Suter, Chara, Pietrangelo & Karlsson are at in the $6.5 - $7.x vicinity of contract/year.

Think anyone would be fussing over taking money back for them if they were on the block? Nope. The GMS would be tossing 1st rounders like drunks and snatching them up with little debate.

So that's the problem. He's being paid like a top dman but he isn't and at his age, he won't be.

It's really hard to compare D just based on cap hits signed during different seasons, with fluctuating caps, different ages, different lengths.  Most of these guys would be getting more per season if they weren't either signed to 13-14 year deals or signed years ago.

Phaneuf - 2013, 7 years, $7 M hit

Letang - 2013, 8 years, $7.25 M

Pietrangelo - 2013, 7 years, $6.43 M

Weber - 2012, 14 years, $7.85 M

Suter - 2012, 13 years, $7.5 M

Karlsson - 2012, 7 years, 6.5 M

Doughty - 2011, 8 years, 7 M

Chara - 2010, 7 years, 6.5 M

Keith - 2009, 13 years, $5.5 M

Campbell - 2008, 8 years, 7.135 M

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

In reference to the Oilers but probably to another team too that will remain nameless (minus the goalie part):

[tweet]572431341410783233[/tweet]

 

[cw]

I know the people who carry his water will attribute this to all of the media "bashing" or teams thinking they can buy low on him but the response to Phaneuf being available is a pretty loud statement on all of that "Phaneuf is a real #1 defenseman!" stuff.

Exactly.  We're not the only ones who've been watching him closely.

Calgary effectively dumps him.

Burke: "We stole him!!!"

Rest of League (looking down towards the bottom of the standings every year): "Uh, no Brian, you didn't. Look who is signing your cheques now"

The NHL players voted him the most overrated player in the league in 2012.

He's their captain and was voted man of the match only twice last year and twice this year (both years in losing games)?

There's something wrong with that record when you try to align it with his contract. And that's why his GM is trying to move him.

 

[ZBBM]

I know the people who carry his water will attribute this to all of the media "bashing" or teams thinking they can buy low on him but the response to Phaneuf being available is a pretty loud statement on all of that "Phaneuf is a real #1 defenseman!" stuff.

Exactly.  We're not the only ones who've been watching him closely.

Calgary effectively dumps him.

Burke: "We stole him!!!"

Rest of League (looking down towards the bottom of the standings every year): "Uh, no Brian, you didn't. Look who is signing your cheques now"

The NHL players voted him the most overrated player in the league in 2012.

He's their captain and was voted man of the match only twice last year and twice this year (both years in losing games)?

There's something wrong with that record when you try to align it with his contract. And that's why his GM is trying to move him.

The MotM stats are actually telling.  I think this board is pretty knowledgeable and impartial in voting for the accolades (heck, even I have voted for him and Kessel when they deserve it)..

 

[Kin]

I think Sportsnet just had my favourite moment of the day:

Studio Meathead: Mike, what was the tipping point with Dion Phaneuf's time with the Maple Leafs?

Mike Johnson: Well, obviously the results...

Professional hockey analysis, ladies and germs.

 

[cw]

$2mil? eehhhhhh. Maybe call it $1mil for Weiss, 1st rounder and a prospect. That would be the absolute minimum package I would accept. If we're eating money AND taking a contract back Phaneuf should have pretty good value. I would probably prefer to just not retain anything and take a smaller package in return.

I'd give him away for nothing because I think you can get or develop a comparable talent for $4-5 mil/yr over the life of his deal.

Weber, Suter, Chara, Pietrangelo & Karlsson are at in the $6.5 - $7.x vicinity of contract/year.

Think anyone would be fussing over taking money back for them if they were on the block? Nope. The GMS would be tossing 1st rounders like drunks and snatching them up with little debate.

So that's the problem. He's being paid like a top dman but he isn't and at his age, he won't be.

It's really hard to compare D just based on cap hits signed during different seasons, with fluctuating caps, different ages, different lengths.  Most of these guys would be getting more per season if they weren't either signed to 13-14 year deals or signed years ago.

Phaneuf - 2013, 7 years, $7 M hit

Letang - 2013, 8 years, $7.25 M

Pietrangelo - 2013, 7 years, $6.43 M

Weber - 2012, 14 years, $7.85 M

Suter - 2012, 13 years, $7.5 M

Karlsson - 2012, 7 years, 6.5 M

Doughty - 2011, 8 years, 7 M

Chara - 2010, 7 years, 6.5 M

Keith - 2009, 13 years, $5.5 M

Campbell - 2008, 8 years, 7.135 M

When Canada needed dmen for the Olympics in 2010 and 2014, this is who they picked:
Dan Boyle
Drew Doughty
Duncan Keith
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger
Brent Seabrook
Shea Weber
Jay Bouwmeester
Dan Hamhuis
Alex Pietrangelo
P. K. Subban
Marc-?douard Vlasic

No Dion.

Other teams had Chara, Karlsson, Suter, etc

He represented the Leafs in 2011-12 at the all star game (team choice) - having had no other such accolade since 2008.

in my opinion, he doesn't belong on the list above as one of the top paid dmen in the league because he's proven year after year that he can't perform like one of the top dmen in the league.

If that were not the case, they'd have zero trouble moving him today - he'd have been the first guy gone weeks ago.

 

[cw]

I think Sportsnet just had my favourite moment of the day:

Studio Meathead: Mike, what was the tipping point with Dion Phaneuf's time with the Maple Leafs?

Mike Johnson: Well, obviously the results...

Professional hockey analysis, ladies and germs.

They've been at it approaching five hours and all they've had to talk about are five deals:
Brian Flynn
Brett Connolly
Braydon Coburn
Jeff Petry
Zbynek Michalek

Can you imagine trying to spend an hour on TV trying to talk about Brian Flynn for a 2016 5th?

lol

 

[Peter D.]

I remember when I used to take a vacation day for Trade Deadline.  Still funny how TSN and Sportsnet still start their show at 8 a.m. when nothing goes on 'til after noon.

 

[cw]

https://twitter.com/JLupul/status/572445330333175808