Deadline day thread

[cw]

A few places mentioning that the Wings want Toronto to retain 2 million of Dion's contract, some significant young assets would be coming back as well as 1st round pick.

Toronto is reluctant to eat salary.

Can anyone see any team in this league accepting Dion for 6 years at $7 mil without the Leafs eating a contract or some of Phaneuf's contract.

I can't.

I think the Leafs are open to taking salary back, but retaining on a 6 year deal is something they won't do.

I wouldn't even offer the Leafs future considerations for that deal. Because I think you can get comparable value for $4-5 mil/yr.

He's a 5 mil/yr dman heading towards decline - his twilight years - that are more significant for him because physical players tend to break down sooner.

If the Leafs ate a mil or two/yr, then they might get something back. But if they won't, there are a number of guys or options who look like a better value for the talent dollar.

 

[Kin]

I don't think recent struggles will effect his trade value.

I think it depends on how you look at it. You're right in the sense that I don't think that teams will be scared off because of his struggles and they'll still generally look at him as a top scorer but I think that if he were tearing it up it would definitely be an easier sell on him.

If they are working hard to get it done today, then I would have to think there have been recent discussions with some teams that involve packages that are close to something that the leafs would accept. If they get offered what they are looking for today, I don't see why they wouldn't do it. If you have 2-3 teams interested in making a deal before 3:00, then I think it is possible to get a good return today.

Right, but I guess what I'm saying then is that what the Leafs "would accept" might be more a reflection of their desire to just start clearing house ASAP than it is about getting the best return for him. .

 

[Lynx]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

That would be one of the main reasons I think of moving him. I'd hate to win the lottery just to have MLSE think they could now fast track a rebuilt just because of McDavid. Having Kessel gone would almost force them to stick to the plan.

 

[Deebo]

I don't think recent struggles will effect his trade value.

I think it depends on how you look at it. You're right in the sense that I don't think that teams will be scared off because of his struggles and they'll still generally look at him as a top scorer but I think that if he were tearing it up it would definitely be an easier sell on him.

If they are working hard to get it done today, then I would have to think there have been recent discussions with some teams that involve packages that are close to something that the leafs would accept. If they get offered what they are looking for today, I don't see why they wouldn't do it. If you have 2-3 teams interested in making a deal before 3:00, then I think it is possible to get a good return today.

Right, but I guess what I'm saying then is that what the Leafs "would accept" might be more a reflection of their desire to just start clearing house ASAP than it is about getting the best return for him. .

What I meant by "would accept" is an offer they felt was fair value. It makes no sense to move him now for the sake of getting it done now so I'll assume that isn't what they are doing. If they just wanted to move him out ASAP, I don't think they would have to work very hard to get it done.

 

[pmrules]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

That would be one of the main reasons I think of moving him. I'd hate to win the lottery just to have MLSE think they could now fast track a rebuilt just because of McDavid. Having Kessel gone would almost force them to stick to the plan.

I completely agree if we don't win the lottery.  However, for the first time in years (decades) you will have a young #1 bona fide center and a bona fide winger in his prime.  I don't think you can turn away from that for futures.  If we pick 4th or 5th...i'm all aboard. 

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I wouldn't even offer the Leafs future considerations for that deal. Because I think you can get comparable value for $4-5 mil/yr.

He's a 5 mil/yr dman heading towards decline - his twilight years - that are more significant for him because physical players tend to break down sooner.

If the Leafs ate a mil or two/yr, then they might get something back. But if they won't, there are a number of guys or options who look like a better value for the talent dollar.

I'd rather take a contract like Weiss than eat anything on the deal. But while I mostly share your opinion of Phaneuf, I think with Weiss coming back it makes a deal with Detroit possible. I certainly don't expect to get a 1st and their best prospect back in the deal as well, but something of value maybe.

 

[Kin]

What I meant by "would accept" is an offer they felt was fair value. It makes no sense to move him now for the sake of getting it done now so I'll assume that isn't what they are doing. If they just wanted to move him out ASAP, I don't think they would have to work very hard to get it done.

I think there's a grey area, though, where the Leafs might be considering both factors and just leaning in one way. The analogy I might use is like selling your house and the difference between just getting your asking price and maximizing the market

 

[cw]

I wouldn't even offer the Leafs future considerations for that deal. Because I think you can get comparable value for $4-5 mil/yr.

He's a 5 mil/yr dman heading towards decline - his twilight years - that are more significant for him because physical players tend to break down sooner.

If the Leafs ate a mil or two/yr, then they might get something back. But if they won't, there are a number of guys or options who look like a better value for the talent dollar.

I'd rather take a contract like Weiss than eat anything on the deal. But while I mostly share your opinion of Phaneuf, I think with Weiss coming back it makes a deal with Detroit possible. I certainly don't expect to get a 1st and their best prospect back in the deal as well, but something of value maybe.

Something like that makes sense to me - because it's only a burden during rebuild years. As much as I'd love the Leafs to fleece everyone else, it's not going to happen. We have to be somewhat realistic. We're in this position because other team's GMs were smarter than the Leafs GMs.

 

[Zee]

Ron Wilson sure is gleeful with the Leafs situation.  I get that he's holding a grudge but c'mon, it's been 3 years now.

 

[Frank E]

Ron Wilson sure is gleeful with the Leafs situation.  I get that he's holding a grudge but c'mon, it's been 3 years now.

It's tongue and cheek stuff...Ron Wilson has a sense of humour.

 

[Chris]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

Yeah would be terrible for McDavid to develop alongside a player who has consistently produced under intense media spotlight for years.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

But even if we get McDavid, we're nowhere near good enough to be a playoff contender. Our defence alone will take 3 years to re-build, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd lines and maybe the goalie.

I'm almost worried that we'll land McDavid, and all of a sudden the good people of Toronto will think that the re-build can be avoided.

 

[Chris]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

Yeah would be terrible for McDavid to develop alongside a player who has consistently produced under intense media spotlight for years.

True. Maybe he could learn some summer training techniques or how to battle for pucks in the corner and play defense from Kessel.

 

[pmrules]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

Oh you mean like how "able" the Leafs were to get a 1st line centre for Phil to begin with?  Or how the Leafs were "able" to get a scoring winger in his prime for Sundin in his prime?  It's not that easy.  When you have it in your back pocket, you have to utilize it.

I don't want a repeat of Sundin and Hoglund.

Again, this is only in the remote case of winning the lottery.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

Yeah would be terrible for McDavid to develop alongside a player who has consistently produced under intense media spotlight for years.

True. Maybe he could learn some summer training techniques or how to battle for pucks in the corner and play defense from Kessel.

Kessel wasn't and has never been unfit but why worry about the facts at a time like this.

 

[Highlander]

Sorry don't understand all this Kessel bashing, best pure sniper the Leafs have had in almost forever, we just need to get him a real C to play with.

 

[Zee]

I don't think you can trade Kessel without knowing if the Leafs won the lottery.  That's the only reason I would wait until the off-season.  If by some miracle we won the lottery, there would be no high end talented wingers for McDavid to play with if we were to trade Kessel today.  That, along with a potential higher return, is why I would wait on Kessel until the off-season.

See, to me this is a reason TO trade Kessel before the lottery. I think with a couple of seasons of tanking, and the returns we'll get from trading the core, we'll be able to come up with a 1st line winger or two to develop alongside McDavid. Not sure I want Kessel anywhere near a developing young talent like that.

But even if we get McDavid, we're nowhere near good enough to be a playoff contender. Our defence alone will take 3 years to re-build, not to mention the 2nd and 3rd lines and maybe the goalie.

I'm almost worried that we'll land McDavid, and all of a sudden the good people of Toronto will think that the re-build can be avoided.

Connor McDavid - Connor Brown -- Stanley Cup?

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

If CHI hadn't already blown their pick wad I would've thought a Bickell + picks for Lupul @ 50% retained salary would've been a good deal for both teams.

At least Lupul has enough high end skill to potentially off-set the absence of Kane.

 

[Highlander]

What concerns me is that many teams have already traded their 1st round picks that seemed like naturual trading partners for what we may have to offer.