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Game 21: Canadiens @ Leafs, 7:30PM, TSN, TSN 1050

Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Bozak and Kessel with a cool -4 on the night. Kadri +1.

He's been by far the team's most consistent player this year.

Edit: Uncanny - Fraser at +2.

Deflection off Bozak, incorrect face-off procedure, poor goal by Scrivens to allow to Pacioretty, and empty netter.  Good ol' +/-

It's nice for Fraser to be on for so many goals for though.

These things happen when you're spending all your ice-time in your own end.  Hence the defensive success of the Kadri line this year.

Edit: Just for example, that empty net goal was Kessel giving up a breakaway on a high risk, lazy move.  He deserved the -1 on it.
 
Strangelove said:
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Bozak and Kessel with a cool -4 on the night. Kadri +1.

He's been by far the team's most consistent player this year.

Edit: Uncanny - Fraser at +2.

Deflection off Bozak, incorrect face-off procedure, poor goal by Scrivens to allow to Pacioretty, and empty netter.  Good ol' +/-

It's nice for Fraser to be on for so many goals for though.

These things happen when you're spending all your ice-time in your own end.  Hence the defensive success of the Kadri line this year.

They were getting heavily outshot, every line was spending lots of time in our own end. 
 
pnjunction said:
Strangelove said:
Bozak and Kessel with a cool -4 on the night. Kadri +1.

He's been by far the team's most consistent player this year.

Edit: Uncanny - Fraser at +2.




The top line manages to bag a -4 with only 15 minutes of ice time.  Impressive!!


I've been harping about their defensive play for most of the year but RC keeps throwing them out in key situations with a lead and they are a liability. Bozak I don't mind mostly for the faceoffs but Phil and JVR should be on the bench when we are up. Also he keeps putting them out as the #1 PP. I heard somewhere that RC rewards his players on how they have been playing but other guys have been more effective on the PP. I would rather see Kadri out there on the PP first unit. I like Carlyle but said it many times already this year some of his decisions don't make sense.
 
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Bozak and Kessel with a cool -4 on the night. Kadri +1.

He's been by far the team's most consistent player this year.

Edit: Uncanny - Fraser at +2.

Deflection off Bozak, incorrect face-off procedure, poor goal by Scrivens to allow to Pacioretty, and empty netter.  Good ol' +/-

It's nice for Fraser to be on for so many goals for though.

These things happen when you're spending all your ice-time in your own end.  Hence the defensive success of the Kadri line this year.

They were getting heavily outshot, every line was spending lots of time in our own end.

The Kessel line had nothing tonight.  The other lines generated odd chances, and were generally much more solid overall.  This was reflected in the +/-, though the stat can obviously be misleading at times.
 
Strangelove said:
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Potvin29 said:
Strangelove said:
Bozak and Kessel with a cool -4 on the night. Kadri +1.

He's been by far the team's most consistent player this year.

Edit: Uncanny - Fraser at +2.

Deflection off Bozak, incorrect face-off procedure, poor goal by Scrivens to allow to Pacioretty, and empty netter.  Good ol' +/-

It's nice for Fraser to be on for so many goals for though.

These things happen when you're spending all your ice-time in your own end.  Hence the defensive success of the Kadri line this year.

They were getting heavily outshot, every line was spending lots of time in our own end.

The Kessel line had nothing tonight.  The other lines generated odd chances, and were generally much more solid overall.  This was reflected in the +/- tonight, though the stat can obviously be misleading at times.

I'm just saying it's misleading tonight, those goals could have gone in against any of the lines (with the exception of the EN goal because Kessel gave it away) it wasn't really due to anything particularly bad they did on the goals, at least nothing worse than anyone else was doing.

I'm not trying to say they played well or anything, just that -4 makes them look much worse than anyone else, when I don't think they were that worse than the rest of the team. 

I thought Grabovski actually looked the best out there out of anyone.
 
Aside from the brutal officiating, garbage passing leading to giveaways was the story again tonight.  The Leafs seem to crumble when trying to get the puck out of their zone against even a mediocre forecheck.  Scrivens kept them in this game for as long as he could.

New strategy: just put Fraser out there.  Every line is just Fraser, no one else.  With his seemingly magical +/- it would be mathematically impossible to lose.
 
Stickytape said:
New strategy: just put Fraser out there.  Every line is just Fraser, no one else.  With his seemingly magical +/- it would be mathematically impossible to lose.

No can do Orr needs his 15 minutes....for some reason.


I guess it could be a message to the 1st line that Orr had the same amount of minutes as them, Carlyle says they get time according to how they play and it's about right that they were no better.
 
I'm probably alone here, but I don think the Leafs played that badly. They were flat in the first period for sure, but that penalty kill drained them and gave Montreal a huge momentum boost.

Montreal got a lot of shots, but I only counted 1 that was a really dangerous scoring chance. They missed the net on pretty much every other chance they had. They scored three goals on broken plays, it took them 4:54 to score on a 5 minute powerplay, and they only managed to get that one on a poor play by Scrivens. They scored a bad goal on Scrivens and an empty netter. I'm not convinced. Yes they got the two points and that's all that matters, but this was hardly a statement game by either team.

I've said this before an i'll keep saying it until it changes, but the Leafs do not handle aggressive fore checking well at all. They don't have enough skill on the back end to make their quick transition game work. That forces the D back an the only outlet they have is to guys who are standing still. When they are given time and space to execute, they do it very well, but when teams come at them and don't stop skating, they crumble.
 
TML fan said:
I'm probably alone here, but I don think the Leafs played that badly. They were flat in the first period for sure, but that penalty kill drained them and gave Montreal a huge momentum boost.

Montreal got a lot of shots, but I only counted 1 that was a really dangerous scoring chance. They missed the net on pretty much every other chance they had. They scored three goals on broken plays, it took them 4:54 to score on a 5 minute powerplay, and they only managed to get that one on a poor play by Scrivens. They scored a bad goal on Scrivens and an empty netter. I'm not convinced. Yes they got the two points and that's all that matters, but this was hardly a statement game by either team.

I've said this before an i'll keep saying it until it changes, but the Leafs do not handle aggressive fore checking well at all. They don't have enough skill on the back end to make their quick transition game work. That forces the D back an the only outlet they have is to guys who are standing still. When they are given time and space to execute, they do it very well, but when teams come at them and don't stop skating, they crumble.

Agree the back end is in disarray trying to move the puck.  Think Liles plays tomorrow to help with this? 

It has been and could again be blamed on the forwards going too far ahead not leaving them any options, I wasn't watching very closely for that this time.

I hope they can find a way to bring Gardiner back after the break.  If Holzer going down is the way then so be it, he's pretty cold anyways.
 
The forwards are too far up the ice because the defence is too slow moving the puck. They need to get more skill back there, or reduce the separation.

I'm probably the only one who will knock on Fraser, but he's an absolute slug with hands not even Ponikarovsky would be jealous of. Same goes for Franson. Both are playing well and deserve to be in the lineup, but they do hurt the transition game. If Carlyle is going to continue to play both of them, especially together, they need to adapt their transition, particularly when they play non-stop skating teams.
 
Strangelove said:
This game has to be attributed in significant respect to Randy's inability/unwillingness to make adjustments.  This Orr fascination with guys like Van Reim and Kessel sitting on the bench is complete insanity.  Get Kadri and Mac out there with Kessel for frick sake.

I'm thinking:

JVR - Grabbo - Kessel
Connolly - Kadri - Mac
Kulemin - Bozak - Komarov
McClaren - Mcclement - Brown

Give the first 2 lines all the O-zone starts.
 
Time for a little spark I think to get us rolling as we're a little flat right now. Maybe a call-up of some description is in order.  :-\
 
Potvin29 said:
Rob said:
Potvin29 said:
Why not play someone like Hamilton or Colborne with Kadri/MacArthur instead of Orr? Still don't get this, Carlyle didn't do this in Anaheim.

I'd actually make Grabo a healthy scratch for a game or two in favour of a call-up... I don't know what to do to get him going.

Huh? He looks fine out there and had 3 goals in 4 games coming into this one.

I deleted the post... I didn't mean Grabo. Sorry. I meant to type Bozak but my mind was elsewhere... then I wasn't sure he should be scratched either in favour of a call-up and just decided to not edit the post and delete the whole thing. Either way though, I don't have much of a problem with Orr in the line-up.
 
Rob said:
Potvin29 said:
Rob said:
Potvin29 said:
Why not play someone like Hamilton or Colborne with Kadri/MacArthur instead of Orr? Still don't get this, Carlyle didn't do this in Anaheim.

I'd actually make Grabo a healthy scratch for a game or two in favour of a call-up... I don't know what to do to get him going.

Huh? He looks fine out there and had 3 goals in 4 games coming into this one.

I deleted the post... I didn't mean Grabo. Sorry. I meant to type Bozak but my mind was elsewhere... then I wasn't sure he should be scratched either in favour of a call-up and just decided to not edit the post and delete the whole thing. Either way though, I don't have much of a problem with Orr in the line-up.

It's dumb to use him like he is.  If you're starting Grabovski's line in the D zone all the time, and putting Orr on the 3rd line, you're putting all your eggs in one basket with the top line.  If they have an off night, it is tougher for those other lines to pick up the slack.  It's good the Kadri line was still able to score tonight, but I thought outside of that goal that Montreal didn't have a hard time taking away their chances - they are effectively shorthanded offensively.  Orr can't produce 3rd line offense.
 
Potvin29 said:
Rob said:
Potvin29 said:
Rob said:
Potvin29 said:
Why not play someone like Hamilton or Colborne with Kadri/MacArthur instead of Orr? Still don't get this, Carlyle didn't do this in Anaheim.

I'd actually make Grabo a healthy scratch for a game or two in favour of a call-up... I don't know what to do to get him going.

Huh? He looks fine out there and had 3 goals in 4 games coming into this one.

I deleted the post... I didn't mean Grabo. Sorry. I meant to type Bozak but my mind was elsewhere... then I wasn't sure he should be scratched either in favour of a call-up and just decided to not edit the post and delete the whole thing. Either way though, I don't have much of a problem with Orr in the line-up.

It's dumb to use him like he is.  If you're starting Grabovski's line in the D zone all the time, and putting Orr on the 3rd line, you're putting all your eggs in one basket with the top line.  If they have an off night, it is tougher for those other lines to pick up the slack.  It's good the Kadri line was still able to score tonight, but I thought outside of that goal that Montreal didn't have a hard time taking away their chances - they are effectively shorthanded offensively.  Orr can't produce 3rd line offense.

Agreed. I'm just not in favour of taking Orr out of the line-up completely though.
 
"We were flat, flat, flat, flat," Carlyle said after a 5-2 loss to the Montreal Canadiens on Wednesday. "It looked like at times that we were playing in our boots and they were playing on skates. We just didn't get anything going for ourselves."

On Orr's ice-time:

The coach wouldn't elaborate much on why Orr saw so much ice time beyond saying that he plays the people he feels "are going".

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2013/02/27/toronto_maple_leafs_fall_flat_loss_montreal_canadiens/


 
After that Flat effort I would bring all the guys in the press box in for the NYI game. and I would pull Kessel, and deon to send out a mesage.
 

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