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Game 56 - Montreal @ Leafs- Feb 11th, 2012 - 7:00 PM EST - CBC

Tigger said:
azzurri63 said:
L K said:
Galley showing yet another example of noone stepping up for Kessel.  This team is embarrassing sometimes in their lack of defense of the teams best player.

I agree that has disappeared with this team but c'mon there was nothing there to go after PK. Man if you watch the replay he gives Phil a tap on the back to say OK Phil let's break it up.

He gave a shot to the back of Kessels leg with his, almost slew foot territory and Phil slashed him back before the hug.


Seen him pull off a lot worse. Can't stand the kid myself and his day will come but didn't look that bad to me. I agree though the toughness on this team has disappeared but I think Burke has come to realize the way the game has changed and now gone to the speed game. Think you can still incorporate both but definitely the truculence, toughness is gone.
 
It was a little bit dirty and entirely unnecessary  at the time ( considering the score ) but it was nice to see Phil engage.

The guy they miss a lot, when on his game, is Armstrong. I think the Leafs could use a little edge in the toughness department on top of that but they're soooo fast, and to me that was a priority.
 
Well we're headed out west for 3 games and if we play like we did tonight we'll be looking at a 6 game losing streak and be battling to make it back into a playoff spot.
 
Saint Nik said:
This team has a deficiency of leadership.

I think you hit the nail square on. Who is the leader here?  It sure does not seem like we have one. Phaneuf isn't it.
 
Reimer! Reimer! Gotta be startin' Rei.... yeah, nevermind.

By no means am I saying this is necessary, yet, but anyone think there's any chance they'd start someone like Rynnas or even Owuya, even for a game, just to see what happens?

I mean, not that the Leafs played well or anything tonight, but the shots disparity should display a much closer score. Price was calm, cool and collected, just a quiet confidence I haven't seen from a Leaf goalie in ages, maybe even during Reimer's crazy run last year.
 
Tigger said:
It was a little bit dirty and entirely unnecessary  at the time ( considering the score ) but it was nice to see Phil engage.

The guy they miss a lot, when on his game, is Armstrong. I think the Leafs could use a little edge in the toughness department on top of that but they're soooo fast, and to me that was a priority.

I feel bad for Phil but yeah, at least he's retaliating a bit when that stuff happens.  The problem is that plays like that are happening every single game now.  The book is out on the Leafs.  You can take liberties with Kessel and rarely have to answer for them.  It also does a good job of getting Kessel off his game because he has to watch over his shoulder for a big hit or is looking for stickwork to impede his skating.  The team doesn't need Colton Orr staged fights, but they need a guy who is going to go out there and hit someone hard for messing with Kessel and no-one seems to want to step up and do that (outside of Brown tonight), but this is a problem that happens too much.  I don't think that every player in the league needs to be a heavy hitter, but everyone needs to be willing to try and play a more physical game at times and the Leafs don't seem to do that. 

Heck, Kadri weighs about 125 and manages to lay guys out at times.  There is absolutely no reason that Lupul can't start throwing the odd hit, or heaven forbid Tim Connolly do something other than float around in circles in the offensive zone.

The problem with fast is that teams that do even a mediocre job of clogging the neutral zone and not making reckless pinches can mitigate speed.

Boston does it, Montreal did it, in the games outside of the 5-0 drubbing, Ottawa was doing it.  New York did it in their last game against the Leafs.  Philly did it.  If you take away the transition game, the Leafs are toast.  Outside of the 4th line that tries really hard but really has zero scoring ability (Steckel's goals aside, he really doesn't have much ability with the puck on his stick) and Grabovski, the rest of the roster loses most puck battles along the boards. 

The Leafs have never really learned how to start a good dump in play so it's pretty much a guaranteed turnover if they don't get a free pass at center ice.  The Leafs weren't playing a big tough team tonight and still managed to get outmuscled.  That to me had less to do with a physical disadvantage and more of an unwillingness for the team to stand up for themselves.

I think as Nik said, it goes back to a leadership thing.  Where was Phaneuf to make a statement and shake his team up after two bad outings in a row?  He was a non-factor.  Poor effort on the PP on the point and he initiating physical play, he wasn't skating with authority, and was downright embarrassing on how easily he let Eller walk around him for the 4th goal.  I know I haven't been the biggest supporter of Phaneuf in general but it was kind of ugly watching that kind of effort from the captain of the Leafs on a night when we are honouring Mats.  Mats was a rare breed of player, and the Leafs certainly had stinker games over the 13 years Mats played for the team but this team (as in the fans) deserve better than the effort tonight.
 
I don't really disagree with any of that LK, just that the team before couldn't have even imagined competing with the speed and toughness they had, I think it's potentially an easier road to success via toughness and teaching the dump in pov to respond to counter measures down the line than it is to try that minus team speed to begin with, fwiw.

The Leafs are young and learning, I don't know that Phaneuf is the answer but I think we all know, and as you said, Sundin was a breed apart. I'll gladly accept some lumps on the way as long as management responds to team needs as well and so far, I'm okay with it.
 
Tigger said:
I don't really disagree with any of that LK, just that the team before couldn't have even imagined competing with the speed and toughness they had, I think it's potentially an easier road to success via toughness and teaching the dump in pov to respond to counter measures down the line than it is to try that minus team speed to begin with, fwiw.

The Leafs are young and learning, I don't know that Phaneuf is the answer but I think we all know, and as you said, Sundin was a breed apart. I'll gladly accept some lumps on the way as long as management responds to team needs as well and so far, I'm okay with it.

This team needs a coaching change.
 
TML fan said:
Tigger said:
TML fan said:
Tigger said:
Zee said:
Great another loss. Way to honor Sundin.

The game's over? What'd I miss...

Oh yeah, the Leafs are coming right back.

At the time it was 2-0 with what, almost half a game to go? ...should we be handing out Freedom Fries or something?

Call it an educated guess. In fact call it whatever you want. The proof is on the scoreboard.

Should I average the results of the contents of hermetically sealed envelopes to get the point across or no?
 
Swede said:
Tigger said:
I don't really disagree with any of that LK, just that the team before couldn't have even imagined competing with the speed and toughness they had, I think it's potentially an easier road to success via toughness and teaching the dump in pov to respond to counter measures down the line than it is to try that minus team speed to begin with, fwiw.

The Leafs are young and learning, I don't know that Phaneuf is the answer but I think we all know, and as you said, Sundin was a breed apart. I'll gladly accept some lumps on the way as long as management responds to team needs as well and so far, I'm okay with it.

This team needs a coaching change.

Yes, because that will make Reimer a better goalie and the team that much tougher or able to deal with adversity.

I honestly don't think a coaching change would make more than a minor and relatively pointless difference at this point and that's if the coach they bring in is substantially better, which is doubtful.
 
Swede said:
This team needs a coaching change.

A new coach won't make the players suddenly play better or more consistently, and, if they can't get the effort level up on a night like tonight, there's not a coach in the world that can fix that.

Completely unacceptable effort tonight. That's not how you honour one of the, if not the, best players in franchise history. Every one of the guys who saw the ice tonight should be embarrassed with themselves, with the exception of Mike Brown.
 
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
Saint Nik said:
This team has a deficiency of leadership.

I think you hit the nail square on. Who is the leader here?  It sure does not seem like we have one. Phaneuf isn't it.

Just like in Chicago - lost their 8th straight.  Who's the leader over there anyways?
 
Potvin29 said:
Just like in Chicago - lost their 8th straight.  Who's the leader over there anyways?

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Tigger said:
Yes, because that will make Reimer a better goalie and the team that much tougher or able to deal with adversity.

Coaching changes lead to significant turn arounds enough that I don't think the sarcasm is warranted.
 
Potvin29 said:
Great that he did that then, props to him.

Why is he a poor leader this season do you think?

Excellent point. Give me a second to go edit the post where I wrote "The Leafs have now lost three straight. The only possible explanation for a losing streak is poor leadership and any losing streak of this or equal duration can be similarly ascribed to a lack of leadership."
 
Saint Nik said:
Potvin29 said:
Great that he did that then, props to him.

Why is he a poor leader this season do you think?

Excellent point. Give me a second to go edit the post where I wrote "The Leafs have now lost three straight. The only possible explanation for a losing streak is poor leadership and any losing streak of this or equal duration can be similarly ascribed to a lack of leadership."

Marvelous reply.  I certainly can see where the Leafs struggles would cause one to immediately head for the leadership angle, and, while it was certainly not suggested by your learned self that it was the only possible explanation for a poor stretch of play, it is no doubt an interesting avenue to look into the root causes of the poor play of other teams and to see where the similarities both converge and diverge.  I mean, I definitely would not expect to read, after a terrible loss, "This team lacks leadership," and imagine that it is in any way implied that leadership is the only part of their lacklustre play recently, or inconsistency overall.

We both know leadership is one of the easiest things to quantify, especially on a game by game basis, and so it leads one to wonder why the Leafs team losing is due, in significant amount, to a problem of leadership on the team, while a team like the Blackhawks (as just an example of a glaring streak) losing can't be due to a leadership issue?  Not that it was said it cannot be due to that, but you know.
 
bustaheims said:
Swede said:
This team needs a coaching change.

A new coach won't make the players suddenly play better or more consistently, and, if they can't get the effort level up on a night like tonight, there's not a coach in the world that can fix that.

Completely unacceptable effort tonight. That's not how you honour one of the, if not the, best players in franchise history. Every one of the guys who saw the ice tonight should be embarrassed with themselves, with the exception of Mike Brown.

This coach made a basic mistake not starting the Monster.
On Mats Sundin night would you not go with the Swedish goalie.
That alone is a no brainer. From the very beginning of his tenure
Wilson has tried to distance this team from Sundin and his era.
He is too american for me. This team should play for the crest in the front
and take some fnnn pride. Losing a game all right but too lose too a forever rival with no effort is not acceptable. Something has to be done
the team has been overhauled -assistant coaches changed-
What is left?
Burke do your job.
 

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