Game 56 - Montreal @ Leafs- Feb 11th, 2012 - 7:00 PM EST - CBC

[Kin]

Marvelous reply.  I certainly can see where the Leafs struggles would cause one to immediately head for the leadership angle, and, while it was certainly not suggested by your learned self that it was the only possible explanation for a poor stretch of play, it is no doubt an interesting avenue to look into the root causes of the poor play of other teams and to see where the similarities both converge and diverge.  I mean, I definitely would not expect to read, after a terrible loss, "This team lacks leadership," and imagine that it is in any way implied that leadership is the only part of their lacklustre play recently, or inconsistency overall.

We both know leadership is one of the easiest things to quantify, especially on a game by game basis, and so it leads one to wonder why the Leafs team losing is due, in significant amount, to a problem of leadership on the team, while a team like the Blackhawks (as just an example of a glaring streak) losing can't be due to a leadership issue?  Not that it was said it cannot be due to that, but you know.

Look, I get it. It's cute that you respond to any and all criticisms of anything having to do with the Maple Leafs with the same zeal and levelheadedness of a Fox News watcher talking about the Republican party.

But in this particular instance I think you're overreaching ever so slightly. The post of mine you're referring to, does it attach the deficiency of leadership as a major cause of a particular loss? Does it say that the Leafs are uniquely deprived of Leadership? All it is is my opinion that the current incarnation of the Maple Leafs does not have much in the way of positive leadership. This isn't a new or knee-jerk reaction by me. Feel free to read anything else I've said about Phaneuf in the past as proof of that.

I don't watch a ton of Blackhawk games so I don't have much in the way of an informed opinion on their struggles. I'd guess, in their case, goaltending is a huge part of it as both Emery and Crawford's numbers stink. My initial instinct wouldn't be to chalk the problem in Chicago up to the leadership question because the leadership there is more or less unchanged from when, as evidenced by the photo, the team won the Stanley Cup. That's the kind of thing that, unfair as it may be, buys someone a degree of latitude when it comes to the hard to quantify issue of leadership.

All I can do is watch games and form opinions on the games I watch. That's what I posted. You're entirely free to have a competing or differing opinion. That's the basis of a decent discussion. But we're not going to get there if you take a relatively simple thing I say and twist it to suit your purposes of making anything said about the Maple Leafs in less than a flattering light seem like the ramblings of a crazy person and take it as hard as if I just said something really off colour about your grandmother.

 

[Tigger]

Yes, because that will make Reimer a better goalie and the team that much tougher or able to deal with adversity.

Coaching changes lead to significant turn arounds enough that I don't think the sarcasm is warranted.

They also don't but that wasn't really the point of the sarcasm, the divide between what I posted and what was said in reply was enough.

 

[Kin]

They also don't but that wasn't really the point of the sarcasm, the divide between what I posted and what was said in reply was enough.

Again, I'm not sure what in the world could ever prompt a coaching change if you think that the only reason for it would be a guaranteed result. If teams waited for a guaranteed result before they made a move hockey teams would, essentially, never do anything.

But the idea that Reimer, or any player, would respond to a coaching change and play better isn't wild or far fetched. It happens. That it doesn't come with a moneyback guarantee doesn't really mean much.

 

[Tigger]

This team needs a coaching change.

A new coach won't make the players suddenly play better or more consistently, and, if they can't get the effort level up on a night like tonight, there's not a coach in the world that can fix that.

Completely unacceptable effort tonight. That's not how you honour one of the, if not the, best players in franchise history. Every one of the guys who saw the ice tonight should be embarrassed with themselves, with the exception of Mike Brown.

This coach made a basic mistake not starting the Monster.
On Mats Sundin night would you not go with the Swedish goalie.
That alone is a no brainer. From the very beginning of his tenure
Wilson has tried to distance this team from Sundin and his era.
He is too american for me. This team should play for the crest in the front
and take some fnnn pride. Losing a game all right but too lose too a forever rival with no effort is not acceptable. Something has to be done
the team has been overhauled -assistant coaches changed-
What is left?
Burke do your job.

How has Wilson tried to distance the team from Sundin and his 'era' and what does choosing to start Reimer have to do with which country a player is from? I mean I get that your nick is 'Swede' and it was Mats' night and all but c'mon.

 

[Tigger]

They also don't but that wasn't really the point of the sarcasm, the divide between what I posted and what was said in reply was enough.

Again, I'm not sure what in the world could ever prompt a coaching change if you think that the only reason for it would be a guaranteed result. If teams waited for a guaranteed result before they made a move hockey teams would, essentially, never do anything.

But the idea that Reimer, or any player, would respond to a coaching change and play better isn't wild or far fetched. It happens. That it doesn't come with a moneyback guarantee doesn't really mean much.

The point you were attempting to confront was sarcasm, no? The sarcasm I chose to employ was a direct reflection of the void of content in the reply to my post, not an endorsement of why one would or wouldn't make a coaching change, the second part of my reply was more in line with what you're saying.

The 'gurantee-ness' or lack of it you're referring to has no bearing on the reason or implication for the tone of first part of my reply.

 

[Kin]

They also don't but that wasn't really the point of the sarcasm, the divide between what I posted and what was said in reply was enough.

Again, I'm not sure what in the world could ever prompt a coaching change if you think that the only reason for it would be a guaranteed result. If teams waited for a guaranteed result before they made a move hockey teams would, essentially, never do anything.

But the idea that Reimer, or any player, would respond to a coaching change and play better isn't wild or far fetched. It happens. That it doesn't come with a moneyback guarantee doesn't really mean much.

The point you were attempting to confront was sarcasm, no? The sarcasm I chose to employ was a direct reflection of the void of content in the reply to my post, not an endorsement of why one would or wouldn't make a coaching change, the second part of my reply was more in line with what you're saying.

The 'gurantee-ness' or lack of it you're referring to has no bearing on the reason or implication for the tone of first part of my reply.

Gotcha.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Well, what a loss!  Considering the fact that....

L.A. Lakers' Kobe Bryant was in attendance....
It was Mats Sundin tribute night....
A national television audience....
Playing against a team that's struggled all year....

I'm embarraseed!  The Leafs D and Reimer looked completely out-of-sync.  In fact, the entire Leafs squad looked decidedly plodding and tired.  Playoffs, anyone?

 

[TML fan]

Great another loss. Way to honor Sundin.

The game's over? What'd I miss...

Oh yeah, the Leafs are coming right back.

At the time it was 2-0 with what, almost half a game to go? ...should we be handing out Freedom Fries or something?

Call it an educated guess. In fact call it whatever you want. The proof is on the scoreboard.

Should I average the results of the contents of hermetically sealed envelopes to get the point across or no?

Tigger, you didn't have a point. Anyone who knows the Leafs at all could tell that they weren't coming back in that one. I think it's cool that you were hoping for hope, like when your cat runs away or you buy a lottery ticket, but the final result should point to the idea that there something behind the comments and it wasn't just an overreaction to an early deficit.

 

[Zee]

This team needs a coaching change.

A new coach won't make the players suddenly play better or more consistently, and, if they can't get the effort level up on a night like tonight, there's not a coach in the world that can fix that.

Completely unacceptable effort tonight. That's not how you honour one of the, if not the, best players in franchise history. Every one of the guys who saw the ice tonight should be embarrassed with themselves, with the exception of Mike Brown.

This coach made a basic mistake not starting the Monster.
On Mats Sundin night would you not go with the Swedish goalie.
That alone is a no brainer. From the very beginning of his tenure
Wilson has tried to distance this team from Sundin and his era.
He is too american for me. This team should play for the crest in the front
and take some fnnn pride. Losing a game all right but too lose too a forever rival with no effort is not acceptable. Something has to be done
the team has been overhauled -assistant coaches changed-
What is left?
Burke do your job.

I assumed Gustavsson was getting the start as well due to Sundin night. I'm sure Gustavsson would look up to a guy like Sundin more so than Reimer (all those Olympic and World teams Sundin captained after all). As soon as I saw Reimer got the start I was worried about some softie goals and a loss. Gus would have had huge motivation for the game, but hell what do I know?

 

[Zee]

Great another loss. Way to honor Sundin.

The game's over? What'd I miss...

Oh yeah, the Leafs are coming right back.

At the time it was 2-0 with what, almost half a game to go? ...should we be handing out Freedom Fries or something?

Call it an educated guess. In fact call it whatever you want. The proof is on the scoreboard.

Should I average the results of the contents of hermetically sealed envelopes to get the point across or no?

Tigger, you didn't have a point. Anyone who knows the Leafs at all could tell that they weren't coming back in that one. I think it's cool that you were hoping for hope, like when your cat runs away or you buy a lottery ticket, but the final result should point to the idea that there something behind the comments and it wasn't just an overreaction to an early deficit.

Yep. Even at 2-0 I didnt have to see any more to know the Leafs had no interest in winning that game. It was fairly obvious in the play.

 

[nutman]

Well, what a loss!  Considering the fact that....

L.A. Lakers' Kobe Bryant was in attendance....
It was Mats Sundin tribute night....
A national television audience....
Playing against a team that's struggled all year....

I'm embarraseed!  The Leafs D and Reimer looked completely out-of-sync.  In fact, the entire Leafs squad looked decidedly plodding and tired.  Playoffs, anyone?

                  "CAN YOU SAY STAR STRUCK"


I think you are right on here.
And I will add Denise Richards, Gary Roberts, Wendal Clark, Newendyke, countless Gms ,Salming, Sittler, Domi, and I could go on and on.
-Did anyone take notice of Deons Face during the mats banner raising. he looked terrified.

 

[maplesyrup]

I'm still on team nutman but yeah, I'm one embarrassed Leaf fan this morning. Here's hoping the team is too and they respond in kind.

 

[brothert]

It was obvious during the first 15:00 minutes that this game was going to be a disaster.  0-0 against a bottom feeder and we're trading turnovers with that team like the puck was a frozen piece of nuclear waste.  I didn't think that the goaltending was going to be the difference and it wasn't.  However I don't like Wilson's handling of the goalies.  Goose has a wobbly game and he sits for three,  Reimer has a wobbly game and he stays in for three.  Pretty clear statement to me that Gustavsson is being treated like the backup but playwise it's not that clear to me, especially with post head bump Reimer.

 

[brothert]

I was starting to get excited about a playoff run.  But these past 3 games have taken the wind out of the sails.  3 games against weaker (imo) teams and all of them they are pretty much outworked.  We're headed back to .500 hundred in a month where schedule and opponents dictated a need to be around .650+  I know that I'm staring at the sky waiting for it to fall, but March I think is going to be a huge disappointment and we have no cushion to protect us.  I guess on the bright side no playoffs should mean a well deserved coaching change....

 

[nutman]

Wilson droped the ball in this game as coach. I believe he should have played gus, but I also think in the second after the 2nd goal he should have called a time out and done a goalie change.

Clearly anyone could see they were playing like crap, but I guess Wilson was to star struck to see that they were.

 

[moon111]

Ron Wilson must be good at sim leagues.  He puts together a game-plan and line-ups then sits there and watches the generator produce the outcome for the game.  He`s useless for 60 minutes.

 

[slapshot]

I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the Leafs are still missing that big go-to leadership guy at center since Sundin left. I mean, Kessel, Lupul, Grabo etc are excellent pieces. And, I think guys like Biggs and Ross will add some of the missing grit in a year or so, but they need that high end centre that pretty much all championship teams have...perhaps last year's Bruins being the exception.
Otherwise consider:
Crosby, Datsyuk, Yzerman, Sakic, Teows, Stall, etc. etc. The Leafs need to find one of these guys somehow by trade, UFA or draft. They have the bucks and now a pool of talent, somehow I think Burke gets this done.

 

[Strangelove]

I'll just repeat what's been said already: this team has a dearth of leadership, from Wilson, through Phaneuf, and right on down.  I think I've seen enough to conclude that Phaneuf doesn't have the mental make-up (read: intelligence) to be a good captain in this league, and with crotchety, hapless old Ron as the only other pillar of leadership on the team, well, we're left with 5-0 loss to the Habs on a night honouring (probably) the best Leaf in history.

Shameful, disheartening stuff, even for a fan as cynical as I am.

 

[Tigger]

Great another loss. Way to honor Sundin.

The game's over? What'd I miss...

Oh yeah, the Leafs are coming right back.

At the time it was 2-0 with what, almost half a game to go? ...should we be handing out Freedom Fries or something?

Call it an educated guess. In fact call it whatever you want. The proof is on the scoreboard.

Should I average the results of the contents of hermetically sealed envelopes to get the point across or no?

Tigger, you didn't have a point. Anyone who knows the Leafs at all could tell that they weren't coming back in that one. I think it's cool that you were hoping for hope, like when your cat runs away or you buy a lottery ticket, but the final result should point to the idea that there something behind the comments and it wasn't just an overreaction to an early deficit.

Again, I look forward to getting the results of the game after the 30 minute mark from now on, it'll save a lot of time.

 

[TML fan]

I don't know what's funnier. Your smartass comments or the fact that you defend your smartass comments when they are so obviously misplaced.