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Game of Thrones (S8)

CarltonTheBear said:
Some scattered thoughts:

-I really wish they thought of something other than a giant crossbow to use to take out a dragon

-The whole "Jon died and was resurrected" thing came up again in a giant room full of people but none of Dany or Varys or Tyrion (well he was pretty drunk) thought to ask about more information about it? I don't even think this is nitpicky... the writers purposefully brought this into the conversation why not make it into a bigger deal? Surely it could have been brought into Varys' and Tyrion's conversation about whether Jon is a better king

-Instead of killing a bunch of characters last week so the story can focus more on a central few they just sent a bunch on their merrily way (Tormund, Sam), and you know what I'm good with that. Not everyone has to die

-The Bronn scene... I love Bronn and I get that he's always been motivated by whats best for himself and that's fine, but this scene just felt very odd and out of place

-Arya and the Hound hell yeah

All in all I thought that most of this episode was among the best stuff the show has done in a long time. But it sort of fell apart in the last quarter/third.
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That Bronn thing felt so bizarre. He just appeared out of nowhere.

Also the giant crossbows are basically Ballistas. This is really ancient weaponry and not really that interesting. You would think there would be some sort of fire vs. ice factor but no. The story has too many things it wants to be and was really ambitious and now the spinning plates are crashing to the ground. Still like the show but it's really going out with a thud without source material.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
https://twitter.com/rejectnation/status/1126102081557999617

This doesn't exactly erase all the problems of fridging but I've seen a number of people suggest this would have been a better way to get what the writers wanted out of that situation.
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This has been happening since Arya went to Braavos. You know the executives are interfering with writing when fan theories/plottings/almost everything are more interesting and nuanced than what the show is actually presenting.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
https://twitter.com/rejectnation/status/1126102081557999617

This doesn't exactly erase all the problems of fridging but I've seen a number of people suggest this would have been a better way to get what the writers wanted out of that situation.
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If they wanted to do this right, Missandei had a great opportunity to jump off the wall with Cersei in tow, or at least make the attempt even if it ultimately failed.
 
herman said:
CarltonTheBear said:
https://twitter.com/rejectnation/status/1126102081557999617

This doesn't exactly erase all the problems of fridging but I've seen a number of people suggest this would have been a better way to get what the writers wanted out of that situation.
Click to expand...

If they wanted to do this right, Missandei had a great opportunity to jump off the wall with Cersei in tow, or at least make the attempt even if it ultimately failed.
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I can't remember for sure, but wasn't she shackled?
 
Deebo said:
I can't remember for sure, but wasn't she shackled?
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Just her wrists, with about a foot of play between. Cersei sidles up to her and holds her arm at one point to ask if she had any last words. They're both about a stride from the edge at that point.
 
https://twitter.com/KecskeHunter/status/1125281008490823680

This only applies to the writing. The actors have stepped it up, VFX and music are top notch+, sets and cinematography continue to set the bar, etc.
 
It's all the same to me, although I'm a casual fan and if it wasn't for the wife, may not be watching at all. I will also admit I'm easily entertained.
 
I mean, I thought it was a good episode. I feel like next episode they really need to at least try and address the shift from "I'm willing to kill innocents to get at Cersei" which was at least semi-reasonablle to "I'm just going to straight up murder everyone" but well, there you go.

Like, it seems like the reaction to this is that it came out of nowhere but I dunno. It feels like the question of Jon's true identity was a bit glossed over when it basically shattered Danerys' entire concept of her self and righteous purpose. That feels like it would have a pretty significant effect on someone even before she watches her best bud and dragon get ganked.
 
Well executed episode, even if the journey to pushing Dany into madness was so, so poorly handled (like Anakin Skywalker level). Legitimately vicious and visceral visual storytelling. Probably the best Godzilla movie I?ve seen.
 
Great shots of the night:
Drogon looming out of the shadows into the firelight
Drogon attacking from the Sun
The Mountain towering over the Hound as Drogon soars across the sky
tmg-article_tall.jpg

Jaime holding Cersei
Arya in ash and blood choosing to be a hero
Kawhi Leonard nailing the longest possible two-pointer with 0s
 
herman said:
Well executed episode, even if the journey to pushing Dany into madness was so, so poorly handled (like Anakin Skywalker level).
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See, here's the thing about this. What we just saw wasn't madness. Forgive me for the length of this but I'm up late and this is fresh in my mind.

The idea that you can rule via fear instead of love isn't crazy. It's straight out of Machiavelli. There are countless examples throughout history. Danerys herself states this as her goal. She's seeing everyone around her silently plot in favour of Jon who is a big deal in Westeros, is the legitimate heir to the throne and, as toasty Varys pointed out, carries a sword. So, up on her Dragon, she decides that she's going to burn King's Landing and rule via the fear of her armies and dragon.

So it's not crazy. What it is, though, is evil. And while a turn to evil may seem strange or out of the blue...it's really not. Danerys has always been a bad person with bad goals. Hereditary monarchies are bad. Dictatorships are bad. Yes, throughout the series they've contrasted her freeing slaves with Joffrey torturing prostitutes, but it's still bad. She's always been willing to start a huge war where thousands of people were inevitably going to die so she could be a dictatorial ruler. This is, without wanting to get too deep into Hobbesian concepts of her literal Leviathans, a very bad thing for someone to do. Sure, maybe the season long diversion into Zombie-killin' had people thinking she was something else but a single minded dedication to winning the throne whatever the cost is incredibly consistent with the character.

We were all basically on board with the idea of siege warfare, which if anyone is unaware is the mass starvation of the people we just saw her burn. I appreciate that we get used to the idea of these feudal nobility treating the lives of people and soldiers like they don't matter because, well,that's how we think of history but it's like the scene from season one where(I may have the characters completely wrong) where Danerys' brother is all like "I hear people back home are secretly praying for my return and retaking the throne" and Jorah's all "Nobody back home gives a crap about you. They're praying for good health and crops. They've got they're own stuff". Tyrion and Varys for a while thought she was the best option and they could steer her towards benevolent rule but I think crafty fellows like that would agree that any system that relies on the whims of decency of a dictator for life is pretty inherently flawed.

Yes, the various betrayals and losses clearly affected Danerys' emotional state but her willingness to put the lives of basically everyone she meets at risk for her personal power has been a constant throughout the show. If next week she hops off her dragon and says she burned everyone because they were secretly possessed by backwards weasel-goblins, sure...doubt her sanity but until then all we've seen is that she's just lousy. The same way all of these rich jerks are. Robert, Viserys, Cersei, Stannis...they were all a bunch of hyper-privileged dingbats willing to cause all sorts of death if it furthered their aims.

TL:DR?

Burning people - Bad
Monarchies - Bad
Conquerors - Bad
Danerys has always been willing to conquer to establish a monarchy - she's bad
Westerosi Proletariat - Rise up, seize means of production, guillotines for the bourgeoise nobility.
 
That?s a great point, Nik.

They labeled it madness in the discourse and in the dialogue, so I?ve been looking for madness, rather than the simple bloodthirstiness that comes with entitled power, and that has definitely been there throughout even back to season 1 (where she was overshadowed).

https://twitter.com/onfiregaspy/status/1127794839821508608
https://twitter.com/dreams_on_paper/status/1127762462923685888
 
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/game-of-thrones-mad-queen-daenerys-hints-clues-book-shock-betrayal

Martin likes narrative surprises that feel earned in retrospect. Oberyn Martell, for instance, was always going to lose that duel in Season 4. The evidence is right there on the page and in the episodes once you know where to look for it. But the HBO series has sometimes learned the wrong lesson from Martin?s skill and focused, in later seasons, on obscuring information in order to elicit shock. That?s why, for example, the writers decided to cut a crucial scene between Bran, Sansa, and Arya last season so that the death of Littlefinger wouldn?t be the slow twist of a knife, but a shocking slash of Arya?s dagger.
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