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General Leafs Rumour Updates...

RedLeaf said:
Right. It could mean Staal and a pick. Who knows?
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Well, were I an editor, which I am, I'd say that to "dangle" something makes it sort of implicit that you're hoping to get more. Right? If you dangle a carrot in front of an animal it means you're not just willing to give them a carrot but, rather, you're inducing them to make a further effort forward. "Dangle" would be a pretty odd choice of word for something that you were willing to start the bidding with, especially considering where the writer differentiates between what the Hurricanes are "dangling" and what the Offers would actually offer. 

RedLeaf said:
I take it Staal doesn't interest you?
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He interests me in the sense that he's a good player but seeing as I didn't watch a ton of Hurricanes games last year I'd probably want to know more about why his production dipped before I felt comfortable putting an offer together for him.
 
Andy007 said:
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.
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Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.
 
I don't know that I'd make the trade, but I think Staal is a lot better than his point totals indicate.  He only had 12 PP points all season, when the last 2 full seasons he had at least 20. He was still within the top 15 C in the league for ES points.  I think that's probably just an anomaly, would expect his numbers to be closer to PPG next season.
 
bustaheims said:
Andy007 said:
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.
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Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.
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Look not further than 300 year old Andrei Markov looking for 6+ million on a multi-year deal.
 
Nik the Trik said:
Well, were I an editor, which I am, I'd say that to "dangle" something makes it sort of implicit that you're hoping to get more. Right? If you dangle a carrot in front of an animal it means you're not just willing to give them a carrot but, rather, you're inducing them to make a further effort forward. "Dangle" would be a pretty odd choice of word for something that you were willing to start the bidding with, especially considering where the writer differentiates between what the Hurricanes are "dangling" and what the Offers would actually offer. 
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Well, true enough, but to "dangle" would also mean to entice: "I dangled the worm in front of the fish until it took the hook".  I don't think in this way it necessarily means much more is expected by either party.

But I love this discussion.  "Dangle" is one of those words that always make me snicker and think randy thoughts.
 
bustaheims said:
Andy007 said:
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.
Click to expand...

Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.
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I agree with you about Phaneuf's contract.

The going rate for grade "A" blueliners seems to be $8M per season and north thereof. It is a reasonable supposition that over the remaining term of Phaneuf's contract that price will only increase.

Unlike Markov, Phaneuf has more than 2 or 3 productive years left and what is Markov asking for at his age - 3 years and elephant bucks. For a building team like Florida or Edmonton or a re-stocking one like San Jose, Phaneuf is a good and a reasonably priced choice.

Had Phaneuf become a UFA on July 1st some (idiot?) GM would have offered him more than the Leafs are committed to paying. But honestly there is no defenceman of his caliber available as a UFA at any price.

It's not "supply and demand". It is scarcity .. and right now there is a scarcity of Phaneuf quality rear gurads at any price. You have to trade to get one and who else is willing to give one up?

I appreciate that Phaneuf should not be a 25 minute plus per game first pairing Dman but as a 2nd pairing in San Jose or a 1st pairing one on Edmonton or Florida (better than anything either team has) that is the best they can hope for unless they successfully offer sheet Subban (and there is no way that's happening). Even a team like Buffalo that need to make the cap floor could utilize both Phaneuf and his salary (although I doubt he would give the Sabers as much benefit as he would to other teams).

Beyond that there are Washington and Philly who both need help on defence and frankly some of the transactions those teams have made are strange to begin with, stranger than trading for Phaneuf anyway.
 
Phaneuf's contract was bad before they even gave him the raise. Due to the cap going up all the salaries are going to climb.8 million for Weber or 7 for Dion. What would you take. Subban probably will get the same or better than Weber's deal. Again who would you take? Doughty 7 million per. Subban won the Norris which I'm not sure he should have. Amazing what scoring a whack of points on the PP can do. Nowhere in the same league as Weber or Doughty but that's sports and salary caps. These owners and GM's need to give their heads a shake. Nonis was an idiot to sign Dion for what he did. His play is on the decline. Personally I think the Leafs are going to have a tough time getting rid of Dion unless they eat some salary for sure. Think they have 2 good young offensive D men. Get rid of Dion and bring in some decent defensive minded guys either by trade or better yet youth from the Marlies and let them gain some experience and we will have a strong group in a couple years.
 
B+.

Truth be told, I wonder if their now in a position where they're forced to move him because of the constant criticism. It would be one thing if he was an aki-bergesque #5 D, but its hard to pin the face of the franchise for 6 years on a guy the fans/media don't seem to respect.

And Staal would be good, imo, but I'd love to see the package expanded. (skinner?)
 
Potvin29 said:
Trade him, get whatever you can for him.  I don't think he's getting any faster.  Gets most of his points on the PP, which I think overstates his offensive abilities, and I think he's a liability defensively because of his mobility (or lack thereof).
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I agree that the Leafs should look to trade him but this past season was the first season his PP point totals were higher than his ES point totals.
 
azzurri63 said:
Phaneuf's contract was bad before they even gave him the raise. Due to the cap going up all the salaries are going to climb.8 million for Weber or 7 for Dion. What would you take. Subban probably will get the same or better than Weber's deal. Again who would you take? Doughty 7 million per. Subban won the Norris which I'm not sure he should have. Amazing what scoring a whack of points on the PP can do. Nowhere in the same league as Weber or Doughty but that's sports and salary caps. These owners and GM's need to give their heads a shake. Nonis was an idiot to sign Dion for what he did. His play is on the decline. Personally I think the Leafs are going to have a tough time getting rid of Dion unless they eat some salary for sure. Think they have 2 good young offensive D men. Get rid of Dion and bring in some decent defensive minded guys either by trade or better yet youth from the Marlies and let them gain some experience and we will have a strong group in a couple years.
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Doughty and Weber are simply not available at any price this year. Phaneuf is.

There is the difference.

You may think Nonis overpaid but the fact is that Phaneuf would have received that kind of money and quite likely a lot more as a UFA and the Leafs would have gotten nothing. Then you and everyone else (me included would be screaming).

Extending Phaneuf or trading him at the deadline were the only two choices. At the deadline we were in the playoffs and it appeared that we could do some damage, ergo no trade. The wheels fell off afterwards.

Nonis was then faced with living with the contract extension or consider a trade at the draft or in any event prior to the extension and no trade kicking in. This isn't that controversial or difficult to understand.

There are many defence starved teams out there and Phaneuf is the best available blueliner who can step in and be effective immediately and the price is reasonable when you take into account his age, the fact he islocked up for what really will be the balance of the best years of his career, and the fact that you cannot get Weber, Doughty or Subban (or anyone better than Phaneuf) at any cost.
 
KW Sluggo said:
azzurri63 said:
Phaneuf's contract was bad before they even gave him the raise. Due to the cap going up all the salaries are going to climb.8 million for Weber or 7 for Dion. What would you take. Subban probably will get the same or better than Weber's deal. Again who would you take? Doughty 7 million per. Subban won the Norris which I'm not sure he should have. Amazing what scoring a whack of points on the PP can do. Nowhere in the same league as Weber or Doughty but that's sports and salary caps. These owners and GM's need to give their heads a shake. Nonis was an idiot to sign Dion for what he did. His play is on the decline. Personally I think the Leafs are going to have a tough time getting rid of Dion unless they eat some salary for sure. Think they have 2 good young offensive D men. Get rid of Dion and bring in some decent defensive minded guys either by trade or better yet youth from the Marlies and let them gain some experience and we will have a strong group in a couple years.
Click to expand...

Doughty and Weber are simply not available at any price this year. Phaneuf is.

There is the difference.

You may think Nonis overpaid but the fact is that Phaneuf would have received that kind of money and quite likely a lot more as a UFA and the Leafs would have gotten nothing. Then you and everyone else (me included would be screaming).

Extending Phaneuf or trading him at the deadline were the only two choices. At the deadline we were in the playoffs and it appeared that we could do some damage, ergo no trade. The wheels fell off afterwards.

Nonis was then faced with living with the contract extension or consider a trade at the draft or in any event prior to the extension and no trade kicking in. This isn't that controversial or difficult to understand.

There are many defence starved teams out there and Phaneuf is the best available blueliner who can step in and be effective immediately and the price is reasonable when you take into account his age, the fact he islocked up for what really will be the balance of the best years of his career, and the fact that you cannot get Weber, Doughty or Subban (or anyone better than Phaneuf) at any cost.
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I do believe they will be able to trade Phaneuf without retaining salary.The question is,what could they get for him?
They might have to take a lesser value in terms of trade,(I hope not)To me it will be great cap relief to move him.I'll take my chances on Gardner and Reilly.
 
TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)
 
jdh1 said:
TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)
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Sure. Then trade the eighth and 5th to Florida for the 1st. I like it.

SO, essentially Phaneuf for Ekblad. Kadri is not part of any deal.
 
RedLeaf said:
jdh1 said:
TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)
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Sure. Then trade the eighth and 5th to Florida for the 1st. I like it.

SO, essentially Phaneuf for Ekblad. Kadri is not part of any deal.
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Actually what is speculated is NYI would like:

"Staple speculates that the Islanders' largest need is either a top-pair defenseman or a top-line left winger to complement John Tavares and Kyle Okposo."

That sounds like Lupul to me.  Lupul was shopping in NY over Xmas on the Detroit/Toronto TV series saying he would love to live there.  Include Gunnarsson for the 5th pick.
 
I really don't think Lupul is much of a defensively-orientated player.  One that Carlyle was exasperated with before.  Now, Carlyle probably realized his only choice was to give up on moulding him into anything.  The result is a line that has a fairly young player in Kadri really taking all the heat for that line's follies.  I often wondered if Carlyle in some way wanted to see Lupul fail (and driven out of town for his lackluster defense) and to teach Kadri how important the defensive side really is.  I would of put Kulemin on that line to balance it. 
 
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