General Leafs Rumour Updates...

[GhostofPotvin29]

TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)

Sure. Then trade the eighth and 5th to Florida for the 1st. I like it.

SO, essentially Phaneuf for Ekblad. Kadri is not part of any deal.

Actually what is speculated is NYI would like:

"Staple speculates that the Islanders' largest need is either a top-pair defenseman or a top-line left winger to complement John Tavares and Kyle Okposo."

That sounds like Lupul to me.  Lupul was shopping in NY over Xmas on the Detroit/Toronto TV series saying he would love to live there.  Include Gunnarsson for the 5th pick.

Probably wouldn't consider Lupul a top line LW at this point.

 

[Brian Glennie]

TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, the best they were offered was that steaming heap of dung they ended up getting from the Leafs. If no one was offering a fifth overall then, why the heck would he be worth the fifth overall now?

 

[bustaheims]

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, the best they were offered was that steaming heap of dung they ended up getting from the Leafs. If no one was offering a fifth overall then, why the heck would he be worth the fifth overall now?

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, we don't know whether or not they got into serious negotiations with anyone else. We know Burke had approached them earlier in the season about him, and that they approached Burke about him later on. Also, just because Calgary's management team at the time was willing to move him for what some consider to be a less than spectacular package doesn't mean anything about what he's worth now - and, that package wasn't as bad as it's made out to be, either. There were a pair of 2nd line forwards and a 2nd pairing defenceman that went to Calgary in that deal.

 

[Brian Glennie]

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, the best they were offered was that steaming heap of dung they ended up getting from the Leafs. If no one was offering a fifth overall then, why the heck would he be worth the fifth overall now?

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, we don't know whether or not they got into serious negotiations with anyone else. We know Burke had approached them earlier in the season about him, and that they approached Burke about him later on.Also, just because Calgary's management team at the time was willing to move him for what some consider to be a less than spectacular package doesn't mean anything about what he's worth now - and, that package wasn't as bad as it's made out to be, either. There were a pair of 2nd line forwards and a 2nd pairing defenceman that went to Calgary in that deal.

You can't be serious. Do you honestly believe the Flames were only going to listen to an offer from Brian Burke? They'd have shopped him everywhere and what they got in return is more than Nonis will ever be offered now for a player who has aged, achieved nothing of merit and is signed to a deal that has long term regret written all over it.

 

[bustaheims]

You can't be serious. Do you honestly believe the Flames were only going to listen to an offer from Brian Burke? They'd have shopped him everywhere and what they got in return is more than Nonis will ever be offered now for a player who has aged, achieved nothing of merit and is signed to a deal that has long term regret written all over it.

I don't think you remember how terrible the management team the Flames had at that point really was, so, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't get seriously involved in discussions with anyone else. It wouldn't be the first time a high profile player was traded without there being much negotiations with other teams. The same thing happened when the Bruins traded Thornton to the Sharks.

 

[applecheeks]

Is it possible he's a (cancer) in the dressing room like he was in Calgary. If thats the case, its no wonder they've choked/tripped in the past couple of years?  Maybe with him being the best D man available that we take what we can get.
IMO, I wish he could work out and up his value for a future trade.

 

[Tigger]

You can't be serious. Do you honestly believe the Flames were only going to listen to an offer from Brian Burke? They'd have shopped him everywhere and what they got in return is more than Nonis will ever be offered now for a player who has aged, achieved nothing of merit and is signed to a deal that has long term regret written all over it.

Like busta says, it's really not hard to fathom that the Flames didn't really shop around. I think Nonis could do quite well in a trade given the dearth of top pairing defencemen available and that contract is likely going to look just fine over time.

 

[bustaheims]

Is it possible he's a (cancer) in the dressing room like he was in Calgary. If thats the case, its no wonder they've choked/tripped in the past couple of years?  Maybe with him being the best D man available that we take what we can get.
IMO, I wish he could work out and up his value for a future trade.

Honestly, the whole "locker room cancer" stuff is usually media driven BS. They've failed over the past few seasons due to poor talent, poor strategy and poor goaltending.

 

[freer]

Is it possible he's a (cancer) in the dressing room like he was in Calgary. If thats the case, its no wonder they've choked/tripped in the past couple of years?  Maybe with him being the best D man available that we take what we can get.
IMO, I wish he could work out and up his value for a future trade.

Honestly, the whole "locker room cancer" stuff is usually media driven BS. They've failed over the past few seasons due to poor talent, poor strategy and poor goaltending.

They are rumours. I have heard Kadri as the cancer in the locker room now hence we hear all the trade talks about him.

 

[Kin]

TSN is saying Garth Snow is willing to trade their 5th overall draft choice,and looking for defensive help...Hello Dion...You want to play in the Barkley center....How about giving them Phanuef for their 5th and one of their prospects....(SOLD)

When Calgary traded Phaneuf in 2010, the best they were offered was that steaming heap of dung they ended up getting from the Leafs. If no one was offering a fifth overall then, why the heck would he be worth the fifth overall now?

I think you're misrepresenting what that trade was at the time. Remember, at the time of the trade Bob Mackenzie said that the player in the deal who was playing the best was Ian White. The Flames, in that deal, got a 25 year old defenseman having a good season, a 25 year old centre who had 41 points in 56 games, an affordable winger who'd scored 20 goals in 55 games and cap space.

That's not to say Calgary didn't misjudge any or even all of those assets, just that a team who wasn't interested in scrapping and rebuilding(which Calgary wasn't, which is why they waited so long to trade Iginla) would probably be inclined to take those things over any draft pick.

 

[Brian Glennie]

You can't be serious. Do you honestly believe the Flames were only going to listen to an offer from Brian Burke? They'd have shopped him everywhere and what they got in return is more than Nonis will ever be offered now for a player who has aged, achieved nothing of merit and is signed to a deal that has long term regret written all over it.

Like busta says, it's really not hard to fathom that the Flames didn't really shop around. I think Nonis could do quite well in a trade given the dearth of top pairing defencemen available and that contract is likely going to look just fine over time.

I think you and Busta are right out to lunch. Phaneuf was a marquee player. Why wouldn't the Flames explore every option? Too busy? Just didn't feel like it? You don't think their Board of Directors would've expected due diligence on a deal of that scope?

Maybe it's just me, though. Maybe Phaneuf's value has somehow grown for reasons I can't figure out.

Could you propose a trade scenario that would see Nonis doing "quite well"?

 

[Kin]

Phaneuf was a marquee player.

He was a player having a bad year, not getting along with his teammates and who was pretty widely regarded as being one of the more overrated in the game. Who already had a very expensive contract(relative to the cap in terms of percentage, he's probably cheaper now).

The Brian Burke "Look at this awesome player I got for scraps" narrative of the trade doesn't even really fit your own internal logic because, as you put it, the awesome player they traded for has achieved "nothing of merit" in his time here.

 

[Corn Flake]

Is it possible he's a (cancer) in the dressing room like he was in Calgary. If thats the case, its no wonder they've choked/tripped in the past couple of years?  Maybe with him being the best D man available that we take what we can get.
IMO, I wish he could work out and up his value for a future trade.

Honestly, the whole "locker room cancer" stuff is usually media driven BS. They've failed over the past few seasons due to poor talent, poor strategy and poor goaltending.

They are rumours. I have heard Kadri as the cancer in the locker room now hence we hear all the trade talks about him.

I just find it all so shocking that a team that isn't winning might have disagreements in the locker room and players aren't always getting along.  Shock and horror!  He's a Cancer! No, HE'S a Cancer!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I just find it all so shocking that a team that isn't winning might have disagreements in the locker room and players aren't always getting along.  Shock and horror!  He's a Cancer! No, HE'S a Cancer!

And if players are getting along in a losing environment there's talk about entitlement and the "Blue & White disease". 

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'll add to the above that it was said by more than one GM at the time of the Phaneuf trade, that they didn't even know he was available, so it's not like there was a bidding war that could have taken place.

Also, Calgary had recently traded for Boumeester and probably felt like that would mitigate the loss of Phaneuf in a deal. He wasn't the best in Calgary in hindsight, but those are the types of deals that get made, win or lose.

 

[bustaheims]

I just find it all so shocking that a team that isn't winning might have disagreements in the locker room and players aren't always getting along.  Shock and horror!  He's a Cancer! No, HE'S a Cancer!

And if players are getting along in a losing environment there's talk about entitlement and the "Blue & White disease".

Exactly. Media generated BS. When teams are bad, they feel the need to create stories that are more interesting than simply "the team is bad."

 

[KW Sluggo]

Is it possible he's a (cancer) in the dressing room like he was in Calgary. If thats the case, its no wonder they've choked/tripped in the past couple of years?  Maybe with him being the best D man available that we take what we can get.
IMO, I wish he could work out and up his value for a future trade.

Honestly, the whole "locker room cancer" stuff is usually media driven BS. They've failed over the past few seasons due to poor talent, poor strategy and poor goaltending.

That pretty much sums it up on both counts as far as Iam concerned

 

[KW Sluggo]

Phaneuf was a marquee player.

He was a player having a bad year, not getting along with his teammates and who was pretty widely regarded as being one of the more overrated in the game. Who already had a very expensive contract(relative to the cap in terms of percentage, he's probably cheaper now).

The Brian Burke "Look at this awesome player I got for scraps" narrative of the trade doesn't even really fit your own internal logic because, as you put it, the awesome player they traded for has achieved "nothing of merit" in his time here.

I wouldn't go quite that far.

Yes, Phaneuf has not met our expectations but he is playing better than he did in Calgary and he is a second pairing defenceman playing first pairing minutes and lots of them. In fact, I would suggest that had he been used less over the first two-thirds of the season, he may not have been running on fumes for the final one-third of the campaign.

He is not the scond coming of Doug Harvey but he is a decent 20 minutes per game defenceman.

In a league where a 35 year old Markov with an injury history of no mean duration can get 3 years at $17.250M (to say nothing of what the Rangers will now pay Richards and what the Icelanders are now paying Rick Di Pietro and will be for about 19 more years) well I would say that Phaneuf is full value for his salary.

The top pairing defencemen from this point on will be getting (although perhaps not earning) $8M per season plus.

I think we move Phaneuf more to carve out some cap room and to finally start seriously on the rebuild with some younger defencemen as we do for any other reason, alleged cancer included.

 

[Kin]

You missed the point there. That isn't me saying anything about Phaneuf's play with the Leafs, that's me saying that it's not internally consistent to say that Phaneuf hasn't doing anything as a Leaf while buying into the idea that the Leafs gave up a lot less than he was worth.

I don't agree with the idea that Rick Dipietro somehow makes Phaneuf good value for the money and I think Markov actually hurts your idea that Phaneuf would get that much on the open market but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Brian Glennie]

Phaneuf was a marquee player.

He was a player having a bad year, not getting along with his teammates and who was pretty widely regarded as being one of the more overrated in the game. Who already had a very expensive contract(relative to the cap in terms of percentage, he's probably cheaper now).

The Brian Burke "Look at this awesome player I got for scraps" narrative of the trade doesn't even really fit your own internal logic because, as you put it, the awesome player they traded for has achieved "nothing of merit" in his time here.

1. Somebody said we could get a 5th overall for Phaneuf.
2. I said Nonis wouldn't even be offered what Calgary got for him in 2010.
3. Busta and Tigger said no, in fact, he was actually worth a lot more, both then as well as now, and the only reason Calgary undersold was because Brian Burke was the only GM they let know that Phaneuf was available. Just him.
4. Gee, I said, Really? That seems like an awfully strange way to go about dealing such a big name player and when I looked it up I found stuff like this:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/blog/_/name/lebrun_pierre/id/4808038/nhl-calgary-flames-gm-denies-dion-phaneuf-trade-block

So you see, Nik? Its those two (Busta and Tigger) who are clearly insane, not me.