Goaltending conundrum

[ZBBM]

The basic point is, VAN's flameout puts all these scenarios -- with both goalies -- in play.  If they had swept LA behind Luongo, then the chatter would all be what to do with Schneider.  This is much more interesting.

I don't think Vancouver even considers trading Schneider.  He's younger and already better than Luongo.  The Canucks couldn't score enough, but Luongo did give up 7 goals in 2 games.  That's not good enough for the playoffs.  Schneider gave up 4 goals in 3 games, so he gave his team a chance to win in each game.

If nobody will take Luongo off their hands, they'll have to trade Schneider -- they can't let him go for nothing, either via offer sheet or otherwise.  The kid is not going to spend his career backing up or even platooning with Luongo.  So yes, both are in play at this point.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The basic point is, VAN's flameout puts all these scenarios -- with both goalies -- in play.  If they had swept LA behind Luongo, then the chatter would all be what to do with Schneider.  This is much more interesting.

I don't think Vancouver even considers trading Schneider.  He's younger and already better than Luongo.  The Canucks couldn't score enough, but Luongo did give up 7 goals in 2 games.  That's not good enough for the playoffs.  Schneider gave up 4 goals in 3 games, so he gave his team a chance to win in each game.

If Schneider gets the better offers I'd say you move him, because you don't lose much (if anything) with Luongo in net and you'll have the better return, for what is still an unproven commodity.

 

[BrownRolo]

I don't think Luongo is strong enough emotionally to play in Toronto. He is just way to fragile.

 

[Zee]

The basic point is, VAN's flameout puts all these scenarios -- with both goalies -- in play.  If they had swept LA behind Luongo, then the chatter would all be what to do with Schneider.  This is much more interesting.

I don't think Vancouver even considers trading Schneider.  He's younger and already better than Luongo.  The Canucks couldn't score enough, but Luongo did give up 7 goals in 2 games.  That's not good enough for the playoffs.  Schneider gave up 4 goals in 3 games, so he gave his team a chance to win in each game.

If Schneider gets the better offers I'd say you move him, because you don't lose much (if anything) with Luongo in net and you'll have the better return, for what is still an unproven commodity.

There's no way they can sell that to the fan base who have mostly turned the page on Luongo already.  They'll be screaming bloody murder if Schneider leaves and Luongo stays.

 

[bustaheims]

There's no way they can sell that to the fan base who have mostly turned the page on Luongo already.  They'll be screaming bloody murder if Schneider leaves and Luongo stays.

If they're putting greater concern on the opinions of the fan base than they are on what's best for the team, then they're sunk either way.

 

[Kin]

There's no way they can sell that to the fan base who have mostly turned the page on Luongo already.  They'll be screaming bloody murder if Schneider leaves and Luongo stays.

Vancouver's not much different from Toronto. If you're basing that on message boards or blogs or people calling in to radio shows you're not really getting a great snapshot of the fan base as a whole. Vancouver can go with either goalie and not worry about selling tickets.

 

[Zee]

There's no way they can sell that to the fan base who have mostly turned the page on Luongo already.  They'll be screaming bloody murder if Schneider leaves and Luongo stays.

If they're putting greater concern on the opinions of the fan base than they are on what's best for the team, then they're sunk either way.

What's best for the team is trade Luongo and keep the younger Schneider. If there was any doubt this is what they wanted to do I thought playing Schneider the final 3 playoffs games might have cleared that up. How do you tell Luongo "you're our guy buddy!" when you didn't let him run with the ball in the playoffs?

If I were in Luongo's situation I'd probably quietly ask for a trade at this point. They've second guessed him for awhile now. I would think he would want to go to another organization and prove Vancouver wrong. Anyone with any fire in the belly would feel that way after losing your job at the most important time of the year.

 

[Corn Flake]

I don't think Luongo is strong enough emotionally to play in Toronto. He is just way to fragile.

I'm not sure there is much of a difference from Van to Toronto in that regard if you ask me. The sum total number of eyeballs here is larger, but the media coverage and scrutiny and the fickle fans are about the same. If anything here we are slightly (and I mean slightly) more level headed with the highs and lows.  Van fans seem to all as a whole ride the wave.

 

[bustaheims]

What's best for the team is trade Luongo and keep the younger Schneider.

It's not that cut and dry and you know it. If the return on Schneider is better, then trading him could certainly be the better option, since the difference been him and Luongo is not significant. And, if they can't get Schneider to agree to a long-term deal before he signs an offer sheet or chooses arbitration or whatever gets him a one year deal, trading Luongo and keeping Schneider could mean not having either of them after next season.

 

[Jolly good show chaps]

I really like the offer sheet idea - Really give Vancouver something to witch about.  8)

Would I be right in saying that if we give Schneider an offer sheet then Vancouver would match. BUT would they then not want to entertain offers from us for Luongo?

 

[Zee]

"It's going to be what's best for the team," said Luongo. "Whatever scenario that is, I'm okay with it - whether that involves me being here or not is okay. We've got a lot of potential in this locker room, there's a great core of guys, and the chance to do something special."

"They've got a guy [Schneider] here that is going to be a superstar in this league for the next 10, 12, 15 years," said Luongo. "It is a business and that's the way it goes. I loved being here the last six years. I think my career has really taken off and we did some incredible things. If I'm here in the future, then great. If I'm not, that's good also."

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=394097

Sounds like to me he's asking to be moved with these comments.  Especially when talking about Schneider and how "that's the way it goes"

 

[Stickytape]

I don't think Luongo is strong enough emotionally to play in Toronto. He is just way to fragile.

Maybe he'd do better here, what with there being no threat of the Playoffs and all.

Kidding aside, I worry about this, too.  The team's #1 problem in my opinion is lack of identity and leadership.  A shaky goalie on a shaky team is a bad combination.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Aside from his rookie season, he has never had a SV% below .913.  He's not shaky at all, and certainly not in comparison to any goalie we've had since the lockout.

 

[Bates]

We can fix that for him Potvin.

 

[princedpw]

I don't think Luongo is strong enough emotionally to play in Toronto. He is just way to fragile.

Maybe he'd do better here, what with there being no threat of the Playoffs and all.

Kidding aside, I worry about this, too.  The team's #1 problem in my opinion is lack of identity and leadership. 

I really think the team's #1 problem is their overall play not being good enough.  For instance, if the team were amazing both offensively and defensively.  Say, they were at the top of the league in both categories and hence really didn't have an identity either as a good offensive team or a good defensive team.  Suppose also, they had pretty balanced size and speed so you couldn't really say they were just a big team or just a fast team.  In such a case, I don't think I'd be worried about an identity problem!

Or, alternatively, I might say the leafs do have a pretty good identity right now:  Giving up a lot of goals.  They've pretty consistently had pretty terrible goaltending combined with poor defense since the lockout.  That's an identity!

This post is in jest -- don't take it the wrong way.  It's just the idea of "having an identity" and "having leadership" are such vague terms...when teams are good one claims they "have an identity"; when they are bad one claims they "do not have an identity" -- it doesn't really mean much and doesn't really provide a concrete plan for moving forward.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

A few points about Luongo:

1)  Luongo has let in some bad goals in his career, but overall he has been a Hall of Fame calibre goal tender.  Grant Fuhr let in lots of bad goals, but won a boat load of cups.  Ken Dryden let in bad goals, but so what. Luongo has won an Olympic gold and taken his team to Game 7 of a Stanley Cup final.  How many active goalies have done that?

2)  Luongo holds the club records for most victories by a goaltender in both Vancouver and Florida. 

3)  He was the captain of the Canucks.  I know that it was agreed that he relinquish the captaincy to one of the Sedin's, but I believe that this was because it was felt the extra responsibility of being captain on the ice could disrupt his focus and hurt his play.  The fact that he was selected captain in the first place shows that he has leadership.

4)  He has been at his best when he has been busy.  Lots of games and lots of shots.  Toronto would keep him busy.

I still expect that Luongo will end up in Florida, but I hope that Burke at least kicks the tires.  If the price is reasonable, Luongo would be a good acquisition.

Several posters on this site have said they have no idea what the cost would be to acquire Luongo.  I read that a Vancouver writer suggested that the cost would be a second round draft choice.  Today on TSN radio it was suggested that it would cost Toronto both the 5th overall pick and Gardiner.  It looks like the media have no better idea what the cost will be than we do.

 

[Brian Glennie]

I read that Luongo's wife and kids live in Florida but does that mean he'll only waive for the Lightning or the Panthers?  Maybe he'll take the job in Toronto because then he's only a 6 hour flight away instead of the 12 hours it takes him to get to Florida from Vancouver. Plus, the Leafs play 4 games a year down there and the NHL season is only eight-odd months long. Luongo could play for the Leafs and he'd still probably see his kids more than I do mine and we're living in the same house.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Florida teams offer two advantages over Toronto:

-  proximity to Luongo's family;
-  less scrutiny by fans and media. 

Of course, there are other teams in need of a goaltender as well.  New Jersey, assuming Brodeur retires; Chicago, although Vancouver would like prefer to trade him out of the Western Conference; Columbus, etc.

 

[ZBBM]

When Luongo said today, in the past tense, that it was great being there for 6 years, that is as strong a signal as you can send that he's out of there.  The question for us is whether we want to make an offer.  The roster cost, I now think, will be next to nothing. 

Aside from the central question of whether we can/want to make the contract work, I can't fathom people questioning whether Luongo's a top-notch goalie.  There's no doubt that he is.

 

[drummond]

Unless we can ship some deadwood to BC (Komisarek) I would not even start considering that deal.