Goaltending Showdown - Reimer vs. Bernier

[Zee]

Bernier makes one easy save and holds on for a face off. Reimer makes one easy save and kicks it back out to the opposition who then take shots two and three and Reimer makes outstanding saves on those.

In that scenario the shots are either 1-0 with 1 decent save by Bernier or 3-0 with a decent save and 2 great saves by Reimer. We could talk about how great saves 2 and 3 were and how Reimer is facing tons of shots and keeping the Leafs in it..... or we could wonder why he cannot control shot 1 to begin with and keep things simple and less dangerous.

It's early but Reimer has faced an average of 38 shots per 60 minutes, Bernier 32.  I wonder if the rebound control is the factor in more shots against Reimer.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Bernier makes one easy save and holds on for a face off. Reimer makes one easy save and kicks it back out to the opposition who then take shots two and three and Reimer makes outstanding saves on those.

In that scenario the shots are either 1-0 with 1 decent save by Bernier or 3-0 with a decent save and 2 great saves by Reimer. We could talk about how great saves 2 and 3 were and how Reimer is facing tons of shots and keeping the Leafs in it..... or we could wonder why he cannot control shot 1 to begin with and keep things simple and less dangerous.

Like I said, I much prefer the controlled style of Bernier over Reimer but if Reimer continues to win, what is there to complain about?

I realize that in an ideal world the goaltending we'd prefer is Bernier's as it leaves our hearts where they are suppose to be instead of in our throats....

 

[Boston Leaf]

I like them both and think the competition can help the team..But for Me I think Reimer makes our already weak D work harder. Bernier is better at handling pucks and rebounds so it seems less stressful for the D..

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Great, here comes the puck handling conversation again  ;D

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Reimer understands when the Leafs have a lead that it's smart to kick out rebounds and let the clock wind down faster.  He knows he will make the saves.

 

[Stickytape]

Bernier makes one easy save and holds on for a face off. Reimer makes one easy save and kicks it back out to the opposition who then take shots two and three and Reimer makes outstanding saves on those.

In that scenario the shots are either 1-0 with 1 decent save by Bernier or 3-0 with a decent save and 2 great saves by Reimer. We could talk about how great saves 2 and 3 were and how Reimer is facing tons of shots and keeping the Leafs in it..... or we could wonder why he cannot control shot 1 to begin with and keep things simple and less dangerous.

Like I said, I much prefer the controlled style of Bernier over Reimer but if Reimer continues to win, what is there to complain about?

I think the trouble is that I've seen people flip-flop on Reimer based essentially on the luck of how his rebounds and scrambly style turns out.  He can play essentially the same style and quality of hockey, and if the puck stays out (Kadri, Bolland, and I think either Raymond or Bozak each saved what looked like very likely goals off rebounds last night), then everyone thinks Reimer stole the game.  If instead those same rebounds unluckily kick out onto the other team's sticks and they convert a bunch of goals, then suddenly Reimer "had a bad game" and he's shaky and scrambly and leaky.

Basically, I think a good amount of Reimer's performance actually came down to luck.  4-1 sounds like a safe margin after the fact, but two bad bounces and we're looking at a 3-3 game, and Raymond's empty-netter never happens.

I love Reims, though, and I hope things continue to work out for him.

Reimer understands when the Leafs have a lead that it's smart to kick out rebounds and let the clock wind down faster.  He knows he will make the saves.

Is it smart to kick out rebounds, or is it just what he always does?  Because there were a few really hairy instances where the team badly needed a change, and Reimer was unable to smother the puck to get a faceoff and a free line change.

 

[Joe S.]

Bernier makes one easy save and holds on for a face off. Reimer makes one easy save and kicks it back out to the opposition who then take shots two and three and Reimer makes outstanding saves on those.

In that scenario the shots are either 1-0 with 1 decent save by Bernier or 3-0 with a decent save and 2 great saves by Reimer. We could talk about how great saves 2 and 3 were and how Reimer is facing tons of shots and keeping the Leafs in it..... or we could wonder why he cannot control shot 1 to begin with and keep things simple and less dangerous.

Cujo used to do the exact same thing.

 

[Fanatic]

Cujo used to do the exact same thing.

And Cujo did a great job, much like Reimer has done a great job. I just think that Bernier is still an upgrade To Reimer.

 

[Corn Flake]

Bernier makes one easy save and holds on for a face off. Reimer makes one easy save and kicks it back out to the opposition who then take shots two and three and Reimer makes outstanding saves on those.

In that scenario the shots are either 1-0 with 1 decent save by Bernier or 3-0 with a decent save and 2 great saves by Reimer. We could talk about how great saves 2 and 3 were and how Reimer is facing tons of shots and keeping the Leafs in it..... or we could wonder why he cannot control shot 1 to begin with and keep things simple and less dangerous.

Cujo used to do the exact same thing.

Yup.  Reimer vs. Bernier is kind of like Cujo vs. Belfour.... both got the job done, but Cujo would do the 3-save thing and Belfour would quietly make 1 save, not let out the rebound and get a whistle.

edit: wonder if we look into the history of those two goalies how the shot counts were from one to the other. I recall the Leafs being regularly out shot in the Cujo days, but I could be wrong.

 

[Joe S.]

Cujo used to do the exact same thing.

And Cujo did a great job, much like Reimer has done a great job. I just think that Bernier is still an upgrade To Reimer.

Oh I'm not arguing with you at all - I'm just pointing out that Cujo had the same style and really didn't get much flack for it.

When I saw Belfour play for the Leafs, it was the first time I'd ever seen that kind of rebound control - he was really something to watch. It looked like the puck was being sucked up by a vacuum when it got near Belfour.

 

[Joe S.]

edit: wonder if we look into the history of those two goalies how the shot counts were from one to the other. I recall the Leafs being regularly out shot in the Cujo days, but I could be wrong.

Just a quick look over at nhl.com has this:

Shots for/Against

98-99 28.3 28.8
99-00 26.4 29.1
00-01 27.8 27.4
01-02 28.5 24.9
02-03 26.3 29.5
03-04 27.5 26.4

 

[Fanatic]

When I saw Belfour play for the Leafs, it was the first time I'd ever seen that kind of rebound control - he was really something to watch. It looked like the puck was being sucked up by a vacuum when it got near Belfour.

I think when you follow primarily one team you tend to get used to the style of your own goaltender very quickly. In the past couple of years I have only watched the Leafs and I have gotten used to seeing Reimer play. So when I watched Bernier play a couple of games - somewhere amidst the announcers gushing about efficiency of movement and puck control etc. I really saw a big difference in style that I liked. So, for fun (sick fun) I went back and watched game 7 with Boston last year and I thought, my goodness does Reimer ever flop around. He is usually good at it too, but overall I think I much prefer the way Bernier plays - quiet, calm, efficient. He seems to be able to slow play down and take chances away more than Reimer does.

 

[Frank E]

When I saw Belfour play for the Leafs, it was the first time I'd ever seen that kind of rebound control - he was really something to watch. It looked like the puck was being sucked up by a vacuum when it got near Belfour.

I think when you follow primarily one team you tend to get used to the style of your own goaltender very quickly. In the past couple of years I have only watched the Leafs and I have gotten used to seeing Reimer play. So when I watched Bernier play a couple of games - somewhere amidst the announcers gushing about efficiency of movement and puck control etc. I really saw a big difference in style that I liked. So, for fun (sick fun) I went back and watched game 7 with Boston last year and I thought, my goodness does Reimer ever flop around. He is usually good at it too, but overall I think I much prefer the way Bernier plays - quiet, calm, efficient. He seems to be able to slow play down and take chances away more than Reimer does.

Tim Thomas flopped around quite a bit too, just like Hasek did.

 

[Deebo]

So far in 4 games Bernier has faced an average of 29 shots per game.  Last season Reimer was around 30, the year before 28.

So far, this season Reimer is facing ~5.75 shots per 60 minutes more than Bernier.

 

[Corn Flake]

edit: wonder if we look into the history of those two goalies how the shot counts were from one to the other. I recall the Leafs being regularly out shot in the Cujo days, but I could be wrong.

Just a quick look over at nhl.com has this:

Shots for/Against

98-99 28.3 28.8
99-00 26.4 29.1
00-01 27.8 27.4
01-02 28.5 24.9
02-03 26.3 29.5
03-04 27.5 26.4

Thanks for looking it up.  Those first two years look very familiar.  I'm a little surprised at 02-03, but then again there were some adventurous d-men on that team, like Lumme, Berg, Jackman.  I remember teams becoming very good at keeping the Leafs pinned in their zone.  Ken Hitchcock tore them apart in the post season with that and kept Belfour off his game with distractions.

 

[Redleaf]

I'm thinking the way Reimer plays, it tends to tax the defence a little more than Bernier. That may have been a factor in that final game against the Bruins, when the team, especially the defence looked tired. Would Bernier have been the difference in that game? I'm guessing Nonis thinks it would have or why bother making the trade to bring him in?

 

[bustaheims]

So far, this season Reimer is facing ~5.75 shots per 60 minutes more than Bernier.

Sure, but, you know, sample size and all.

 

[Highlander]

my take is Bernier would have won game 7....Reimer coughed up a juicy rebound that was smacked in. That was the difference and also Carlyle not calling a time out.

 

[Joe S.]

but then again there were some adventurous d-men on that team, like Lumme, Berg, Jackman.  I remember teams becoming very good at keeping the Leafs pinned in their zone.  Ken Hitchcock tore them apart in the post season with that and kept Belfour off his game with distractions.

Good Lord! Lumme!! I completely forgot about him!

this is how I picture Lumme if I think about his time with the Leafs:

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

my take is Bernier would have won game 7....Reimer coughed up a juicy rebound that was smacked in. That was the difference and also Carlyle not calling a time out.

We'd be celebrating a Cup win still if Bernier was in net.