Hurricanes @ Leafs - Oct. 17th, 7:00pm - LeafsTV, SN 590

[GhostofPotvin29]

It was almost like there were problems with the ice as pucks were bouncing, passes were horrid and even players and officials were stumbling/falling.

JVR has been quoted this season already as saying the ice at the ACC is bad.

 

[Champ Kind]

Hordes of panicky people seem to be evacuating the town for some unknown reason. Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

It was almost like there were problems with the ice as pucks were bouncing, passes were horrid and even players and officials were stumbling/falling.

JVR has been quoted this season already as saying the ice at the ACC is bad.

Lupul has also.

Tough room here for the game day thread. Obviously it was an ugly game, but given the circumstances, (injuries, poor defensive coverage and giveaways) it was bound to make the Leafs pay a price at some point. It's surprising they didn't pay the piper in other games.

I see injuries as the most pressing issue. Carlyle will get them tight on the defensive end, or at least a lot better. But, we're missing some key guys here and I think we should give it a chance to see a full line-up and what they can do before we make statements like the Leafs suck or the like.

JvR/ Bozak/ Kessel
Lupul/ Kadri/ Clarkson
Raymond/ Bolland/ Kulemin
Ashton/ McClement/ Orr
McLaren

Gunnarsson/ Phaneuf
Gardiner/ Franson
Rielly/ Ranger
Fraser

That looks a lot different than the line-up we watched last night.

 

[bustaheims]

Which goal has been worse -- this one, the one Quick gave up, or the one Luongo was quick stepping?  Some pretty brutal goals early in the season here.

I'd probably rank this as the third worst. Quick's is the worst, because he had no reason to come out and play the puck. The Luongo/Hamhuis fiasco was a comedy of errors and, to me, that makes that worse, as well. This was just Bernier having a brain fart.

 

[bustaheims]

Bernier played it as if it was an icing, I'm not sure he knew the other official negated the call. Apparently it was the right call under the circumstances, but that's just a terrible break and the first big strike against this "judgement" icing rule. Touch or no-touch, pick one.

Icing or no icing, you don't let up until after the whistle has blown. Whether or not Bernier knew that the linesman waved off the icing, he screwed up.

 

[Highlander]

What did Burke call the ACC, the "Vatican of Hockey". Then why does our ice suck so bad? We should have great friken ice.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Which goal has been worse -- this one, the one Quick gave up, or the one Luongo was quick stepping?  Some pretty brutal goals early in the season here.

I'd probably rank this as the third worst. Quick's is the worst, because he had no reason to come out and play the puck. The Luongo/Hamhuis fiasco was a comedy of errors and, to me, that makes that worse, as well. This was just Bernier having a brain fart.

Wasn't Quick trying to stop the puck for his defensemen?  It's such a common play I'd say there was a reason he came out to play the puck, just one of those things you can do 1000 times and the one time it backfires.

 

[Bender]

Message to Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle. Wake up. All of us can see what has been the problem with this team for a long time. Address it please.

So we start 6-1, have an off game and now it's a generalized anger towards our coaching and GM even though we're riddled with injuries?

Does not compute.

There's probably been more "off games" than solid 60 minute performances from the team.  Which games would you say the Leafs were the better team?  I'm not complaining about being 6-2, but to say this has been one off game doesn't mesh with reality.  Probably in 5 of the games the other team has been better overall - obviously that doesn't always translate on the scoresheet, but I don't think it's something you can repeat over an 82-game season (or not something you want to attempt to do anyways).  The Leafs have some injury troubles, so it's not like it's totally unexpected they wouldn't be playing at their best, but they haven't played well overall in many games to start the season.

Hopefully that bodes well for the team having this record and having not played their best hockey at all.

What I'm getting at is it's fine to criticize the team's play, but basically to rip into the GM and Coach after going 6-2 with a plague of injuries is nothing short of knee jerking.

(Not directing this at you but) You'd have to be crazy to think Carlyle isn't trying to work on puck possession.

 

[Bender]

Message to Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle. Wake up. All of us can see what has been the problem with this team for a long time. Address it please.

Seriously. Work on those 190 footers for pete's sake.

Nik and can go for Bender as well. Seriously you guys pleased with the way this team has played? They have been outplayed I think in probably every game. The record is great but the problem that has plagued this team for the last 5 years is still with us and that's poor D. I have mentioned it before and players have changed but we give up way too many good scoring chances , too many giveaways and we are getting outshot most nights and not by 3 or 4 shots. If it wasn't for Bernier or Reimer we could easily be 2-6. To win in this league you have to play a somewhat tight game and that is non existent with this team. The writing was on the wall after the Boston blowup but if you guys recall the team didn't play any different in the regular season but we managed to win a lot of those 1 goal games but again I would say it was due to Reimer. Can't rely on these 2 all the time. Ya you can have the odd night off but way to frequent. Far as I'm concerned Nonis hasn't addressed this and if that's the team Carlyle wants then get them to start playing a more complete game otherwise it's going to be no different than last years ending.

All I read is: We lost, rabble rabble. Rabble!

I've never said the team doesn't have room to improve, they do. But to make grandiose pronouncements like Nonis hasn't addressed some kind of wishy washy notion of bringing players who can win or players who can play a "complete" game this early in the season is, quite frankly, grating, although I should have expected this would happen.

No, you can't rely on the team to win consistently based on the way they're playing, but from my eyes this game could've gone either way and wasn't a game where we were out of it from the get go. The only game I felt that way so far this season was the Avalanche game.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Message to Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle. Wake up. All of us can see what has been the problem with this team for a long time. Address it please.

So we start 6-1, have an off game and now it's a generalized anger towards our coaching and GM even though we're riddled with injuries?

Does not compute.

There's probably been more "off games" than solid 60 minute performances from the team.  Which games would you say the Leafs were the better team?  I'm not complaining about being 6-2, but to say this has been one off game doesn't mesh with reality.  Probably in 5 of the games the other team has been better overall - obviously that doesn't always translate on the scoresheet, but I don't think it's something you can repeat over an 82-game season (or not something you want to attempt to do anyways).  The Leafs have some injury troubles, so it's not like it's totally unexpected they wouldn't be playing at their best, but they haven't played well overall in many games to start the season.

Hopefully that bodes well for the team having this record and having not played their best hockey at all.

What I'm getting at is it's fine to criticize the team's play, but basically to rip into the GM and Coach after going 6-2 with a plague of injuries is nothing short of knee jerking.

(Not directing this at you but) You'd have to be crazy to think Carlyle isn't trying to work on puck possession.

Yep, Carlyle has said as much.

 

[bustaheims]

Wasn't Quick trying to stop the puck for his defensemen?  It's such a common play I'd say there was a reason he came out to play the puck, just one of those things you can do 1000 times and the one time it backfires.

If he was, he did a pretty poor job of it. From my POV, it looks like he left his net too late to get the puck before it got into the corner (had it taken a standard path), and it also looks like he's taking a pretty poor route to it. He could (and, in hindsight, obviously should) have waited for the puck to come around behind the net. There wasn't much pressure from the Rangers on the play - they were killing a penalty and were barely across their own blueline when the puck went in. Either way, I still think his is worse than Bernier's.

 

[Corn Flake]

It was almost like there were problems with the ice as pucks were bouncing, passes were horrid and even players and officials were stumbling/falling.

JVR has been quoted this season already as saying the ice at the ACC is bad.

Lupul has also.

I watched them zamboni the ice when I was there on opening night and around both nets they leave HUGE puddles that the crew on the ice go and push around with a big squeegee thing.  It looked to me like there would be all sorts of peaks and ruts as a result, around the net to the boards behind. 

They put in huge money to de-humidify the arena a few years ago. I remember it used to be freezing in there but noticed both times I have been this year it was nowhere near as cold. 

You would think they would have this figured out by now.

 

[Zee]

So after watching what happened with Reimer, why were people blaming Leivo so much?  Reimer dove out of the net for the puck which was unexpected and Leivo couldn't suddenly slow down.  It's not like Leivo went through the crease to crash into Reimer.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Why does anyone need blame?  It was an unlucky combination of factors.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

They put in huge money to de-humidify the arena a few years ago. I remember it used to be freezing in there but noticed both times I have been this year it was nowhere near as cold. 

You would think they would have this figured out by now.

You'd think. Maybe it's the system under the ice that's the problem? Anyway, the ice hasn't been good.

 

[azzurri63]

Message to Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle. Wake up. All of us can see what has been the problem with this team for a long time. Address it please.

Seriously. Work on those 190 footers for pete's sake.

Nik and can go for Bender as well. Seriously you guys pleased with the way this team has played? They have been outplayed I think in probably every game. The record is great but the problem that has plagued this team for the last 5 years is still with us and that's poor D. I have mentioned it before and players have changed but we give up way too many good scoring chances , too many giveaways and we are getting outshot most nights and not by 3 or 4 shots. If it wasn't for Bernier or Reimer we could easily be 2-6. To win in this league you have to play a somewhat tight game and that is non existent with this team. The writing was on the wall after the Boston blowup but if you guys recall the team didn't play any different in the regular season but we managed to win a lot of those 1 goal games but again I would say it was due to Reimer. Can't rely on these 2 all the time. Ya you can have the odd night off but way to frequent. Far as I'm concerned Nonis hasn't addressed this and if that's the team Carlyle wants then get them to start playing a more complete game otherwise it's going to be no different than last years ending.

All I read is: We lost, rabble rabble. Rabble!

I've never said the team doesn't have room to improve, they do. But to make grandiose pronouncements like Nonis hasn't addressed some kind of wishy washy notion of bringing players who can win or players who can play a "complete" game this early in the season is, quite frankly, grating, although I should have expected this would happen.

No, you can't rely on the team to win consistently based on the way they're playing, but from my eyes this game could've gone either way and wasn't a game where we were out of it from the get go. The only game I felt that way so far this season was the Avalanche game.

What has Nonis actually done in your mind other than the Bernier trade that has improved this team. He fell into the position because Burke got axed and yes the team in my opinion is coming along but the team is where it is today because of Burke. Did Nonis deserve the big raise and contract? Don't think so. Think that was just another shot at Burke. Yes the Clarkson signing will help but in my opinion the contract will hurt this team in the long run and quite frankly already did this summer with cap issues. Don't get me wrong I like Dave and Randy but from what I seen last spring the team was on it's way. Think they needed to tinker it a bit and try and get Randy's team to start playing a tighter system. They never did it with Wilson and didn't do it over the shortened season last year. The Bruins collapse wasn't one game. We played like that on most nights just got away with it and I see the same thing so far this year. Think this team is very promising. Our forwards lines I think are stronger than it has been in a long time. The defence I think could have been improved. Another top 4 D that could log good minutes and play solid defensively while taking the load off of Phaneuf would have been my number one goal this summer. Albeit this is the team Carlyle has wanted so now they just need them to play tighter and limit the number of giveaways and from what I see are good quality scoring chances. If they can learn to do that we will see some more playoff games and deeper than the 1st round. Yes we can say we have some injuries but time will tell if things change. I'm hoping I'm wrong but don't see that happening.

 

[Highlander]

Hi 63,,, what about stealing Mason (Rayman) Raymond, a draft pick for Colborne whom may end up being as useful as a sack of potatos...getting us Bolland and Clarkson...our cap in 5 years is going to be around 90 million so why worry about the Clarkson deal. What about Nonis and his continued stewardship of our younger players.
I think when we look back the Bernier deal is going to look like another steal. Hell, look at the Avalanche selling the farm for Varlamov...looks great now but it is going to cost them

Nonis and Carlyle are winners and we are going to win this year..maybe not the cup but we are going to turn some heads.

 

[Kin]

What has Nonis actually done in your mind other than the Bernier trade that has improved this team.

I'd also include Raymond and Bolland in there. Likewise, I think Nonis deserves credit for some pretty reasonable Kadri and Franson extensions.

Did Nonis deserve the big raise and contract? Don't think so.

That "raise" and "contract" were just acknowledgements of the fact that he was no longer the assistant GM. I would understand thinking Nonis shouldn't have gotten the job but, if he does, he's going to get paid like he's the full time GM.

The defence I think could have been improved. Another top 4 D that could log good minutes and play solid defensively while taking the load off of Phaneuf would have been my number one goal this summer.

And by all accounts, Nonis tried to do just that. Scuderi just decided against signing here. One of the major flaws with the way Burke built the team is that if you're relying on big pieces to come through the FA market you have to accept that the club doesn't get to make the final decisions on where players sign.

So, in one off-season, Nonis added Bernier, Bolland, Raymond, Clarkson and Ranger. He re-signed Kessel, Franson and Kadri to reasonable extensions. Right now most of those look like pretty good moves so I don't think too many people are going to be going after him with pitchforks.

 

[Chev-boyar-sky]

Message to Dave Nonis and Randy Carlyle. Wake up. All of us can see what has been the problem with this team for a long time. Address it please.

Seriously. Work on those 190 footers for pete's sake.

Nik and can go for Bender as well. Seriously you guys pleased with the way this team has played? They have been outplayed I think in probably every game. The record is great but the problem that has plagued this team for the last 5 years is still with us and that's poor D. I have mentioned it before and players have changed but we give up way too many good scoring chances , too many giveaways and we are getting outshot most nights and not by 3 or 4 shots. If it wasn't for Bernier or Reimer we could easily be 2-6. To win in this league you have to play a somewhat tight game and that is non existent with this team. The writing was on the wall after the Boston blowup but if you guys recall the team didn't play any different in the regular season but we managed to win a lot of those 1 goal games but again I would say it was due to Reimer. Can't rely on these 2 all the time. Ya you can have the odd night off but way to frequent. Far as I'm concerned Nonis hasn't addressed this and if that's the team Carlyle wants then get them to start playing a more complete game otherwise it's going to be no different than last years ending.

All I read is: We lost, rabble rabble. Rabble!

I've never said the team doesn't have room to improve, they do. But to make grandiose pronouncements like Nonis hasn't addressed some kind of wishy washy notion of bringing players who can win or players who can play a "complete" game this early in the season is, quite frankly, grating, although I should have expected this would happen.

No, you can't rely on the team to win consistently based on the way they're playing, but from my eyes this game could've gone either way and wasn't a game where we were out of it from the get go. The only game I felt that way so far this season was the Avalanche game.

What has Nonis actually done in your mind other than the Bernier trade that has improved this team. He fell into the position because Burke got axed and yes the team in my opinion is coming along but the team is where it is today because of Burke. Did Nonis deserve the big raise and contract? Don't think so. Think that was just another shot at Burke. Yes the Clarkson signing will help but in my opinion the contract will hurt this team in the long run and quite frankly already did this summer with cap issues. Don't get me wrong I like Dave and Randy but from what I seen last spring the team was on it's way. Think they needed to tinker it a bit and try and get Randy's team to start playing a tighter system. They never did it with Wilson and didn't do it over the shortened season last year. The Bruins collapse wasn't one game. We played like that on most nights just got away with it and I see the same thing so far this year. Think this team is very promising. Our forwards lines I think are stronger than it has been in a long time. The defence I think could have been improved. Another top 4 D that could log good minutes and play solid defensively while taking the load off of Phaneuf would have been my number one goal this summer. Albeit this is the team Carlyle has wanted so now they just need them to play tighter and limit the number of giveaways and from what I see are good quality scoring chances. If they can learn to do that we will see some more playoff games and deeper than the 1st round. Yes we can say we have some injuries but time will tell if things change. I'm hoping I'm wrong but don't see that happening.

I think it's hard to judge Nonis in a bad way when the team is 6-2 without Clarkson, Kulemin, JVR and Fraser at various points so far this season.

Despite key players (especially defensively) being absent the team is 6-2 largely on the back of players Nonis decided to add (Bolland, Bernier, Raymond).

So......

 

[proteus2000]

Hi 63,,, what about stealing Mason (Rayman) Raymond, a draft pick for Colborne whom may end up being as useful as a sack of potatos...getting us Bolland and Clarkson...our cap in 5 years is going to be around 90 million so why worry about the Clarkson deal. What about Nonis and his continued stewardship of our younger players.
I think when we look back the Bernier deal is going to look like another steal. Hell, look at the Avalanche selling the farm for Varlamov...looks great now but it is going to cost them

Nonis and Carlyle are winners and we are going to win this year..maybe not the cup but we are going to turn some heads.

Nonis did great work in the off season. Bernier, Bolland, Raymond, all great pickups. Clarkson is TBD but I believe we will be grateful to have him in the spring.