Idiocracy

[L K]

I met the Resident from the Cleveland Clinic at a conference last summer.  Wonderful person with a bright future.  She got kicked out of the country despite being on a J1 visa and involved in active medical practice/training. 

Trump......unbelievable. 

 

[rjd]

I'm pretty sure that with the state of the rich/poor gap in the states, and given the racial tension, that at some point we are going to see a civil war in the states.   

 

[OrangeBlack]

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying.  I didn't look at it with the perspective that this may help ISIS recruiting.  After taking the time to digest all the unintended consequences of this, it seems that this initiative was very poorly planned.  How can you institute something like this only 7 days after taking office.  It would seem that just the research & planning stage for all the ins & outs of what could happen under this travel restriction would take at least a few months.  This was definitely rushed to his desk for signature.

With that said, I definitely believe that we need to do something to tighten up immigration from terrorist nations.  When we see what happens in France, Germany & Belgium on an increased basis...that's not what we want the US to be.  It can be said that those countries seem very lax in regards to who they let across their borders.  Hopefully, there is some US intelligence that was gathered which backs up singling out the 7 countries on the list.  I can live with the fact that he didn't list any countries he's already doing business in.  I mean.......everyone knew that going in that there would be definite conflicts of interest. 

Just to qualify my statements.....I'm generally Democratic on social issues, & lean to the right on national security/defense and economic issues.  I saw Trump as the lesser of two evils...and agreed with the general perception that Hillary was a corrupt, evil b****.  The evidence that she worked with the DNC to steal the nomination from Bernie was definitely compelling....along with the long list of other dirty laundry.

 

[OrangeBlack]

I'm pretty sure that with the state of the rich/poor gap in the states, and given the racial tension, that at some point we are going to see a civil war in the states. 

I can see that too.  I read that the murder rate in Chicago was more than the combined murder rate of NY & LA.  The reason I brought this up was because I was watching a show where they interviewed Chicago police.  The Chicago officers are literally just responding to 911 calls & call in's now (reactive policing), while doing aggressive proactive policing much, much less.  It's basically the Ferguson effect....no wants to be the next poster example on the news.  That type of policing in the big cities leads to increased crime & racial animosity....along with of course the 1% of cops that are bad.  The government needs to find a solution where the police are allowed to do their jobs, & at the same time are trusted by the black community.  Not an easy feat. 

 

[L K]

I'm pretty sure that with the state of the rich/poor gap in the states, and given the racial tension, that at some point we are going to see a civil war in the states. 

I can see that too.  I read that the murder rate in Chicago was more than the combined murder rate of NY & LA.  The reason I brought this up was because I was watching a show where they interviewed Chicago police.  The Chicago officers are literally just responding to 911 calls & call in's now (reactive policing), while doing aggressive proactive policing much, much less.  It's basically the Ferguson effect....no wants to be the next poster example on the news.  That type of policing in the big cities leads to increased crime & racial animosity....along with of course the 1% of cops that are bad.  The government needs to find a solution where the police are allowed to do their jobs, & at the same time are trusted by the black community.  Not an easy feat.

A good starting point would be actual prosecution of the 1% who destroy the reputation of everyone else.  You have people going to jail for weed possession and then an officer can beat the living snot out of someone who essentially did nothing wrong and he gets 2 weeks of administrative leave followed by a month of desk duty before going back out on the roads.    I grew up in a police family.  I certainly lean in the direction of what a crappy job it can be when you go to a call for a domestic and then have both parties attack you because you go to arrest the person who actually committed an assault.  But the police/unions/DAs need to grow up and start tossing out the dirty bath water instead of protecting it.

 

[Bender]

It's not really a ban, it's a temporary travel restriction for 4 months.  The idea is to make sure that refugees & immigrants that come into this country are properly vetted.  Certainly, it's not a perfect system....they're trying to figure it out as they go along.  Hopefully, this leads to a clean process that's acceptable to both sides.  It's not unreasonable to state that if you allow hundreds of thousands of people free entry into the US from both Mexico & the travel banned countries....it will lead to bad risks that will infiltrate those ranks.  Yes, 99% of the people that come in to the US are good people....vetting keeps out the other 1%.  Is it profiling....probably.
Is there a better way to do it?  It's very unfortunate that innocents at JFK right now are caught in the wide net that was cast.  I feel bad for them & their families.

It's causing issues far beyond its intentions. None of the 9/11 attackers were from listed countries, countries that Trump has dealings with are not part of the ban. Refugees are already strongly vetted without random additional restriction. Even well to do people like Oscar nominated director & British politician are banned. Likelihood of getting murdered by fellow American is far higher but very little support for a temporary ban on sale of firearms to properly vet purchasers.

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[Arn]

With that said, I definitely believe that we need to do something to tighten up immigration from terrorist nations.  When we see what happens in France, Germany & Belgium on an increased basis...that's not what we want the US to be. 

What about this kind of US?

 

[Arn]

It's not really a ban, it's a temporary travel restriction for 4 months.  The idea is to make sure that refugees & immigrants that come into this country are properly vetted.  Certainly, it's not a perfect system....they're trying to figure it out as they go along.  Hopefully, this leads to a clean process that's acceptable to both sides.  It's not unreasonable to state that if you allow hundreds of thousands of people free entry into the US from both Mexico & the travel banned countries....it will lead to bad risks that will infiltrate those ranks.  Yes, 99% of the people that come in to the US are good people....vetting keeps out the other 1%.  Is it profiling....probably.
Is there a better way to do it?  It's very unfortunate that innocents at JFK right now are caught in the wide net that was cast.  I feel bad for them & their families.

It's causing issues far beyond its intentions. None of the 9/11 attackers were from listed countries, countries that Trump has dealings with are not part of the ban. Refugees are already strongly vetted without random additional restriction. Even well to do people like Oscar nominated director & British politician are banned. Likelihood of getting murdered by fellow American is far higher but very little support for a temporary ban on sale of firearms to properly vet purchasers.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

A multi Olympic gold winning medallist and Knighted British national can't get back to stay with his family

https://www.thestar.com/sports/amateur/2017/01/29/mo-farah-slams-us-travel-ban-trump-seems-to-have-made-me-an-alien.html

 

[bustaheims]

Muslim ban. This is disgusting.

Signed into law on Holocaust Remembrance Day, no less. Just appalling.

It's almost as if one of his chief advisors is a literal Nazi.

You might just be on to something . . .

I mean, their statement about Holocaust Remembrance Day #AllLivesMattered the Holocaust.

 

[OrangeBlack]

I'm pretty sure that with the state of the rich/poor gap in the states, and given the racial tension, that at some point we are going to see a civil war in the states. 

I can see that too.  I read that the murder rate in Chicago was more than the combined murder rate of NY & LA.  The reason I brought this up was because I was watching a show where they interviewed Chicago police.  The Chicago officers are literally just responding to 911 calls & call in's now (reactive policing), while doing aggressive proactive policing much, much less.  It's basically the Ferguson effect....no wants to be the next poster example on the news.  That type of policing in the big cities leads to increased crime & racial animosity....along with of course the 1% of cops that are bad.  The government needs to find a solution where the police are allowed to do their jobs, & at the same time are trusted by the black community.  Not an easy feat.

A good starting point would be actual prosecution of the 1% who destroy the reputation of everyone else.  You have people going to jail for weed possession and then an officer can beat the living snot out of someone who essentially did nothing wrong and he gets 2 weeks of administrative leave followed by a month of desk duty before going back out on the roads.    I grew up in a police family.  I certainly lean in the direction of what a crappy job it can be when you go to a call for a domestic and then have both parties attack you because you go to arrest the person who actually committed an assault.  But the police/unions/DAs need to grow up and start tossing out the dirty bath water instead of protecting it.

  Agreed.  That would definitely be a good starting point.

 

[OrangeBlack]

With that said, I definitely believe that we need to do something to tighten up immigration from terrorist nations.  When we see what happens in France, Germany & Belgium on an increased basis...that's not what we want the US to be. 

What about this kind of US?

Gun control is a very complex issue.  People should have right to purchase guns, with a mechanism in place where guns don't get into the wrong hands.  I'm all for strong vetting in regards to who is allowed to purchase a gun.....strong background checks & mental health checks.

 

[crazyperfectdevil]

so now trump is creating crises that only he can solve...wonderful

 

[OrangeBlack]

It's not really a ban, it's a temporary travel restriction for 4 months.  The idea is to make sure that refugees & immigrants that come into this country are properly vetted.  Certainly, it's not a perfect system....they're trying to figure it out as they go along.  Hopefully, this leads to a clean process that's acceptable to both sides.  It's not unreasonable to state that if you allow hundreds of thousands of people free entry into the US from both Mexico & the travel banned countries....it will lead to bad risks that will infiltrate those ranks.  Yes, 99% of the people that come in to the US are good people....vetting keeps out the other 1%.  Is it profiling....probably.
Is there a better way to do it?  It's very unfortunate that innocents at JFK right now are caught in the wide net that was cast.  I feel bad for them & their families.

It's causing issues far beyond its intentions. None of the 9/11 attackers were from listed countries, countries that Trump has dealings with are not part of the ban. Refugees are already strongly vetted without random additional restriction. Even well to do people like Oscar nominated director & British politician are banned. Likelihood of getting murdered by fellow American is far higher but very little support for a temporary ban on sale of firearms to properly vet purchasers.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

A multi Olympic gold winning medallist and Knighted British national can't get back to stay with his family

https://www.thestar.com/sports/amateur/2017/01/29/mo-farah-slams-us-travel-ban-trump-seems-to-have-made-me-an-alien.html

I don't see that he'll have any issues getting back into the US.  He's clearly a British citizen, not a Somali or dual citizen.

 

[L K]

It's not really a ban, it's a temporary travel restriction for 4 months.  The idea is to make sure that refugees & immigrants that come into this country are properly vetted.  Certainly, it's not a perfect system....they're trying to figure it out as they go along.  Hopefully, this leads to a clean process that's acceptable to both sides.  It's not unreasonable to state that if you allow hundreds of thousands of people free entry into the US from both Mexico & the travel banned countries....it will lead to bad risks that will infiltrate those ranks.  Yes, 99% of the people that come in to the US are good people....vetting keeps out the other 1%.  Is it profiling....probably.
Is there a better way to do it?  It's very unfortunate that innocents at JFK right now are caught in the wide net that was cast.  I feel bad for them & their families.

It's causing issues far beyond its intentions. None of the 9/11 attackers were from listed countries, countries that Trump has dealings with are not part of the ban. Refugees are already strongly vetted without random additional restriction. Even well to do people like Oscar nominated director & British politician are banned. Likelihood of getting murdered by fellow American is far higher but very little support for a temporary ban on sale of firearms to properly vet purchasers.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

A multi Olympic gold winning medallist and Knighted British national can't get back to stay with his family

https://www.thestar.com/sports/amateur/2017/01/29/mo-farah-slams-us-travel-ban-trump-seems-to-have-made-me-an-alien.html

I don't see that he'll have any issues getting back into the US.  He's clearly a British citizen, not a Somali or dual citizen.

That he's provided with any resistance in the first place is the problem.  Creating this kind of climate for an imagined problem is grossly negligent.

 

[Heroic Shrimp]

It's not really a ban, it's a temporary travel restriction for 4 months.  The idea is to make sure that refugees & immigrants that come into this country are properly vetted.  Certainly, it's not a perfect system....they're trying to figure it out as they go along.  Hopefully, this leads to a clean process that's acceptable to both sides.  It's not unreasonable to state that if you allow hundreds of thousands of people free entry into the US from both Mexico & the travel banned countries....it will lead to bad risks that will infiltrate those ranks.  Yes, 99% of the people that come in to the US are good people....vetting keeps out the other 1%.  Is it profiling....probably.
Is there a better way to do it?  It's very unfortunate that innocents at JFK right now are caught in the wide net that was cast.  I feel bad for them & their families.

It's causing issues far beyond its intentions. None of the 9/11 attackers were from listed countries, countries that Trump has dealings with are not part of the ban. Refugees are already strongly vetted without random additional restriction. Even well to do people like Oscar nominated director & British politician are banned. Likelihood of getting murdered by fellow American is far higher but very little support for a temporary ban on sale of firearms to properly vet purchasers.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

A multi Olympic gold winning medallist and Knighted British national can't get back to stay with his family

https://www.thestar.com/sports/amateur/2017/01/29/mo-farah-slams-us-travel-ban-trump-seems-to-have-made-me-an-alien.html

I don't see that he'll have any issues getting back into the US.  He's clearly a British citizen, not a Somali or dual citizen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDAmPIq29ro[/youtube]

 

[AvroArrow]

terrorist nations

Can you please clarify, what exactly are "terrorist nations"?

 

[Nik]

I read that the murder rate in Chicago was more than the combined murder rate of NY & LA.

I think it's important to be careful with statistics like that because the implication there is that Chicago is poorly run or it's an issue that stretches beyond the only real contributing factor to a murder rate, which is poverty.

I mean I think it's somewhat telling that the Right in the United States is very quickly to point to Chicago(where a certain now ex-President is from) as being some sort of crazy murder hellhole when Chicago's ranking in terms of murder rate among America cities isn't top 5 or top 10 or even top 20. Chicago's murder rate is 24th behind places like Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis and some probably surprising places like Hartford, Milwaukee and West Palm Beach.

Chicago gets a lot of press because it's a huge city so the raw total of murders is very high but in terms of rate it's below a bunch of large American cities like Washington, Philadelphia, Memphis...effectively it's just where there are poor people. All those numbers about New York and LA say is they've effectively pushed poor people out of their cities, they haven't solved crime.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

terrorist nations

Can you please clarify, what exactly are "terrorist nations"?

Nationalities of the 19 hijackers on 9/11

Saudi Arabia 15
United Arab Emirates 2
Egypt 1
Lebanon 1

Donny has personal business interests in several of those countries, none of whom have been named on the list of 7 terrorist countries.

Seriously, please don't let this guy destroy what's left of the country.

 

[AvroArrow]

terrorist nations

Can you please clarify, what exactly are "terrorist nations"?

Nationalities of the 19 hijackers on 9/11

Saudi Arabia 15
United Arab Emirates 2
Egypt 1
Lebanon 1

Donny has personal business interests in several of those countries, none of whom have been named on the list of 7 terrorist countries.

Seriously, please don't let this guy destroy what's left of the country.

I genuinely want to know if he has criteria or definition for "terrorist nations".

 

[OrangeBlack]

I read that the murder rate in Chicago was more than the combined murder rate of NY & LA.

I think it's important to be careful with statistics like that because the implication there is that Chicago is poorly run or it's an issue that stretches beyond the only real contributing factor to a murder rate, which is poverty.

I mean I think it's somewhat telling that the Right in the United States is very quickly to point to Chicago(where a certain now ex-President is from) as being some sort of crazy murder hellhole when Chicago's ranking in terms of murder rate among America cities isn't top 5 or top 10 or even top 20. Chicago's murder rate is 24th behind places like Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis and some probably surprising places like Hartford, Milwaukee and West Palm Beach.

Chicago gets a lot of press because it's a huge city so the raw total of murders is very high but in terms of rate it's below a bunch of large American cities like Washington, Philadelphia, Memphis...effectively it's just where there are poor people. All those numbers about New York and LA say is they've effectively pushed poor people out of their cities, they haven't solved crime.

I used the example of Chicago because it was directly referenced in the TV report that I referred to.  It wasn't meant to be an Obama slap, nor a murder rate comparison to the entire country.  I used Chicago to illustrate the point where police are taking an indifferent approach to policing given the current racial climate & media spotlight on policing.