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Kadri "made available" -according to 2 teams

CarltonTheBear said:
Corn Flake said:
Give him Mason Raymond's spot. Time to end that experiment.

I'm fine with this. I haven't cared much for Raymond lately. Carlyle needs to take him off that 2nd line at the very least. I'd be interested to see Kadri on the wing too.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Holland-Kadri
Kulemin-Bolland-Clarkson
Raymond-McClement-Ashton/Orr

Raymond seems to me like he can skate like the wind in straight lines but utterly lacks any creativity.  Against Boston on back to back plays on a Leafs PP he took the puck just over the blueline, stopped, and tried to throw a pass across the blueline.  Both times it was intercepted and almost led to a dangerous chance the other way.

He doesn't really do much else on the ice other than skate fast.  Isn't a particularly good shooter, isn't a particularly good passer, isn't particularly good defensively, isn't physical.  Suited for a third line role possibly but I don't really think I'd miss him.  He's fine at $1 million, but other than that...
 
bustaheims said:
L K said:
I'm not quite sure why Ryan O'Reilly gets so much praise.  He's definitely a better defensive player than Kadri, but Kadri's "bad" season is 27 points in 45 games.  O'Reilly has 31 points in 44 games.  O'Reilly doesn't hit anything and has an unsustainable 14.5% shooting percentage this year (career 10%).  He's also been moved from center to play the wing this year.

I'd love to acquire O'Reilly but I feel like this would be more trading laterally and not really improving the team long-term.

His qualifying offer this summer will also be $6.5M, so, he's going to end up with a very substantial cap hit. A long-term contract will likely be able to bring that number down, but, you're probably still looking at $5.5M+ per going forward. The on ice value is probably close, but the overall asset value doesn't make it a deal that makes sense for the Leafs.

This is what I am thinking regarding Kadri vs RoR.  $2.9 MIL vs $6.5.  I mean really??  I don't see the value difference because even if RoR is better defensively he isn't that much better.  Also Kadri is beginning to hit like a freight train which is scary considering his offensive ability is so good.

I am with CTB and feel that Kadri can be a hard hitting, offensive, ideal 2nd center.  I really, really hope that the Leafs don't trade him unless it is in a package to get a bonafide #1 center or a top pairing dman which are the Leafs 2 glaring holes.
 
Potvin29 said:
Raymond seems to me like he can skate like the wind in straight lines but utterly lacks any creativity.  Against Boston on back to back plays on a Leafs PP he took the puck just over the blueline, stopped, and tried to throw a pass across the blueline.  Both times it was intercepted and almost led to a dangerous chance the other way.

He doesn't really do much else on the ice other than skate fast.  Isn't a particularly good shooter, isn't a particularly good passer, isn't particularly good defensively, isn't physical.  Suited for a third line role possibly but I don't really think I'd miss him.  He's fine at $1 million, but other than that...

Yup, as you know I agree with your assessment completely and think it is unbiased.

Even though he is only making $1 MIL, he is taking a spot from Holland $0.87 MIL, Smith $0.55 MIL, D'Amigo $0.87 MIL, Leivo $0.792 MIL who play a more complete game.
 
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm fine with this. I haven't cared much for Raymond lately. Carlyle needs to take him off that 2nd line at the very least. I'd be interested to see Kadri on the wing too.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Holland-Kadri
Kulemin-Bolland-Clarkson
Raymond-McClement-Ashton/Orr

I like that Lupul's back on the left side.

I'd rather have Raymond-McClement-D'Amigo though. D'Amigo really impressed me. Or trade Raymond and go with Ashton-McClement-D'Amigo
 
Bullfrog said:
I like that Lupul's back on the left side.

Lupul being on the right side has bothered me almost as much as the whole no one-timers on the PP thing.

Bullfrog said:
I'd rather have Raymond-McClement-D'Amigo though. D'Amigo really impressed me. Or trade Raymond and go with Ashton-McClement-D'Amigo

Agreed, I would prefer both of those options to what I actually wrote, but I was just going with what's currently on the roster.
 
Bullfrog said:
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm fine with this. I haven't cared much for Raymond lately. Carlyle needs to take him off that 2nd line at the very least. I'd be interested to see Kadri on the wing too.

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Holland-Kadri
Kulemin-Bolland-Clarkson
Raymond-McClement-Ashton/Orr

I like that Lupul's back on the left side.

I'd rather have Raymond-McClement-D'Amigo though. D'Amigo really impressed me. Or trade Raymond and go with Ashton-McClement-D'Amigo

That's what I would do, but I think D'Amigo-McClement-Ashton is how they line up. I know, minor detail.
 
just as an arbitrary point of comparison.

Kessel's first 152 games - 94 points

Kadri's first 144 games - 90 points

 
Joe S. said:
just as an arbitrary point of comparison.

Kessel's first 152 games - 94 points

Kadri's first 144 games - 90 points

Seguin's first 155 games - 89 points

Although granted he started out at a younger age.
 
RedLeaf said:
L K said:
I'm not quite sure why Ryan O'Reilly gets so much praise.  He's definitely a better defensive player than Kadri, but Kadri's "bad" season is 27 points in 45 games.  O'Reilly has 31 points in 44 games.  O'Reilly doesn't hit anything and has an unsustainable 14.5% shooting percentage this year (career 10%).  He's also been moved from center to play the wing this year.

I'd love to acquire O'Reilly but I feel like this would be more trading laterally and not really improving the team long-term.

But you've just pointed out, he's better defensively than Kadri. If he can put up similar offensive numbers, which many believe he can, than he would help a team like the Leafs become a better defensive team.

Yeah and he's not just better defensively, he's considerably better. If Kadri isn't significantly out-producing O'Reilly offensively, then it's really not up for debate as to who's the better player.

I've seen a decent amount of O'Reilly and I'm pretty impressed with him. He definitely doesn't hit, but also does not take penalties, can play in any situation, and is versatile enough to convert to wing if need be.

The downside is obviously the contract. O'Reilly is only 22 but is already at the point where he'll basically be getting paid like a UFA.

On the other hand, we can't assume from a long-term perspective that Kadri will be much more affordable than him. Were there not rumours about him trying to net a $5M deal last summer? My bet is if he puts up some nice offensive numbers next season, then in summer 2015 he'll be asking for a big deal too.

Given the choice, I would move Kadri for O'Reilly in a heartbeat.
 
If Kadri's available I'd have to think he and Reimer and/or Franson would make an interesting/appealing package.
 
Tigger said:
If Kadri's available I'd have to think he and Reimer and/or Franson would make an interesting/appealing package.

I know the consensus seems to be that Franson would net maybe a 2nd plus something minor which is pretty reasonable, but at the trade deadline, you never know.

Buyers at the deadline are known to overpay a bit more than they  usually would, and Franson is 6'5, good offensively, had a real good series versus Boston last spring, so who knows. He might be worth a bit more than expected.
 
Tigger said:
If Kadri's available I'd have to think he and Reimer and/or Franson would make an interesting/appealing package.

To me, that's a big package. I also think that would be a difficult trade to make.

I suppose you could work different scenarios, but I still think it would be a difficult trade to make, to trade two in one deal. You're right though, I don't think they would have trouble finding interest.
 
I don't think Amazin Nazim is going anywhere at all, however Franson probably will go if anyone does. We have some pretty good young defensmen on the Marlies.  I really like Cody last year, finding a 6'5 defencement whom seem to have some mojo was great and he was good against the Bruins in the playoffs?but this year he has not looked good..we could possibly get a decent pick for him, perhaps a 2nd.
 
A lot of what has already been said in this thread reflects my views. I'll try my best to sort out the little things.

We essentially got Franson for free. He was the cost of us taking the Lombardi contract. He has a unique size and skill-set. His peak trade time is fast approaching, especially because of how packed we are for defensive prospects. Edmonton could probably offer for both Franson and Reimer, something i wouldn't argue much with, so long as the return is not Sam Gagner.

The O'Rielly/Kadri idea should talk itself right off the table. It would represent the Leafs giving up on a prospect, to immediately assume the contract that he is likely to command in 2015, if his progress---which has been stunted significantly when compared to his peers, except maybe Brayden Schenn, who i remember a lot of people being particularly sweet on around here---continues at anything like the pace it has been moving. Yes, he was asking for too much money in the summer, but every kid thinks they can put the cart before the horse. He got his bridge deal because both parties had to agree that the sample size for his "success" was infinitesimal, compared to what he was asking for.

The same might be true for the other bridge deal, in Franson.

All in all, there are few arguments that can be made to suggest that all of, if not just one of Kadri, Franson, and Reimer will be Leafs, come trade deadline. Personally, i think Franson and Reimer deserve a chance elsewhere. Franson doesn't seem to like Carlyle, but neither do i. Reimer has done very little to deserve the ride he has had this year. Kadri is not something to give up on, and while i'm dancing around the subject of terrible coaches being unfair to kids, Tyler Seguin.

If Edmonton would admit that 15,000 1st-round picks doesn't guarantee clout on the market, i think there is a very approachable, very realistic trade to be made between the two clubs.
 
Syntax McLawdog said:
while i'm dancing around the subject of terrible coaches being unfair to kids, Tyler Seguin.

You mean this guy?

Claude Julien:

2008-2009 Jack Adams Award

2011 Stanley Cup Champions

2013 Stanley Cup Finalist

2013/2014 - Currently 2nd in the Eastern Conference...

Yeah, Seguin may not of been handled properly, but Boston hasn't seemed to notice.
 
Boston is still a strong team but if they had a crystal ball they may not have traded Seguin. I believe they are getting more out of Reilly Smith than Eriksson.
 
Sure, about half of every deal that happens in the NHL would not happen if one team had a crystal ball.

Pretty sure if the Leafs had a crystal ball they wouldn't of traded Rask. That's just a guess though.
 
caveman said:
Boston is still a strong team but if they had a crystal ball they may not have traded Seguin. I believe they are getting more out of Reilly Smith than Eriksson.

Who knows if Seguin would have had the same season in Boston though.  The whole issue with him was apparently the off-ice behavior, maybe he ran with a bad crowd in Boston, got too comfortable, didn't work hard enough etc. etc.  The trade might have woken him up and he's more serious about hockey now.  Just speculation on my part.
 
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