Kessel traded to Penguins

[Captain Canuck]

From Dejan Kovacevic

I?m not remotely worried about any sour or dour attitude.

For one, anything that precedes this happened in Toronto, home of hockey?s most miserable franchise and an equally miserable hockey media and fan base. That environment has put down stronger men than Kessel. You don?t go a half-century without even reaching a Stanley Cup final without something being seriously amiss with the overall setting.

The media there, in particular, is as entitled and self-centered and reckless and vicious as any in North America, and it?s blamed almost entirely by those closest to Kessel for how his disposition is perceived.

Here?s what Tyler Biggs, a forward the Penguins picked up in this trade, told us tonight: ?As far as the rumors go with Phil, that?s a Toronto media thing. They tend to speculate. He?s a great player and a great teammate. I happen to think Pittsburgh is lucky to have him.?

Rutherford was terrific on this: ?I don?t have any concerns. I feel very comfortable getting Phil. I?ve done a lot of homework on this. I?ve talked to a lot of people. And I do believe that getting a fresh start, getting out of Toronto, where he was always under the microscope, always the guy blamed when things weren?t going well. He doesn?t have to be the guy here. We?ve got a bunch of them.?

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/07/01/column-rutherford-crushes-it-top-shelf/

What would Tyler Biggs know about what Kessel is like as a teammate? They didn't exactly play together.  :

 

[Kin]

What would Tyler Biggs know about what Kessel is like as a teammate? They didn't exactly play together.  :

They would have been at camp together. That's not the same thing as being a regular teammate, no, but you would get to know a guy in that time.

 

[moon111]

Biggs is probably fond of Kessel because Phil took him along and bought Baconators at Wendy's.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

From Dejan Kovacevic

I?m not remotely worried about any sour or dour attitude.

For one, anything that precedes this happened in Toronto, home of hockey?s most miserable franchise and an equally miserable hockey media and fan base. That environment has put down stronger men than Kessel. You don?t go a half-century without even reaching a Stanley Cup final without something being seriously amiss with the overall setting.

The media there, in particular, is as entitled and self-centered and reckless and vicious as any in North America, and it?s blamed almost entirely by those closest to Kessel for how his disposition is perceived.

Here?s what Tyler Biggs, a forward the Penguins picked up in this trade, told us tonight: ?As far as the rumors go with Phil, that?s a Toronto media thing. They tend to speculate. He?s a great player and a great teammate. I happen to think Pittsburgh is lucky to have him.?

Rutherford was terrific on this: ?I don?t have any concerns. I feel very comfortable getting Phil. I?ve done a lot of homework on this. I?ve talked to a lot of people. And I do believe that getting a fresh start, getting out of Toronto, where he was always under the microscope, always the guy blamed when things weren?t going well. He doesn?t have to be the guy here. We?ve got a bunch of them.?

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2015/07/01/column-rutherford-crushes-it-top-shelf/

What would Tyler Biggs know about what Kessel is like as a teammate? They didn't exactly play together.  :

What Nik said, plus I'm sure he talks to other members of the Leafs and is friends with some of them.

I'd trust him over 'anonymous source' or 'crazy fan'.

 

[sickbeast]

I really think Pittsburgh fleeced us on this trade. Badly.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

So long to arguably the best goal scorer in a Maple Leafs uniform. I knew we had to trade him and all but it really does suck to see him go. I remember a year or two ago I looked at the numbers and the chances of him becoming the franchises all-time leading goal scorer were very good if he just played out his current contract.

 

[Deebo]

Listening to Dubas on PTS today, it seems like rentention was a deal breaker with every team they spoke with.

Also said that they agreed to retain salary when Kapanen was put into the deal.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

We can only have what, 2 salaries retained at any given time? That's probably what hurts the most about this, it might limit our chances of making moves in the future.

 

[Deebo]

We can only have what, 2 salaries retained at any given time? That's probably what hurts the most about this, it might limit our chances of making moves in the future.

3

 

[CarltonTheBear]

3

Ok, not as bad then.

 

[skrackle]

This trade had to happen. Is it ideal for the Leafs and is the return great? No and no.

I don't think the Leafs retaining the $1.25 million of Kessel's contract is an issue. I figure the Leafs are going to be dreadful for at least the next 3 seasons. Cap space will not be a problem during this period. Even with the draft rule changes coming, the Leafs should be in a position to draft some elite talent during the next few years and that's what the focus should be on, as well as developing their current prospects.

Any salaries currently retained by the Leafs, apart from Kessel's contract, will expire during this time. The cap will likely go up and the Kessel salary retention will be a non-issue. That is, if the Leafs don't make any JFJ/Burke/Nonis-type mistakes. Somehow, I don't think they will.

The JVR, Lupul, Bozak and Komorov contracts will all come off the books at the same time. There's over $16 million in cap space that will become available to the Leafs in, I think, after the next 3 seasons. Even if none of these players are moved, they will not hamper the Leafs rebuild financially while they are with the team.

Beyond all that though, I'm glad Kessel is gone. I don't dislike him. I don't trust media portrayals of him and I would not judge him as a person unless I knew him and probably not even then. But Kessel in Toronto was never going to work.

The big question for me has been- Are the Leafs rebuilding, or not? With this trade, I think it is clear that they are.

 

[dappleganger]

This is the type of trade you make when you don't have a GM.

The same type as you do when you have one?

Too many concessions. 1) Leafs retained salary which they pretty much had to to get the deal done.

2) Giving back a second rounder. Shouldn't have had to give this up.

3) Conditions on the first round pick. These will likely won't matter but it shouldn't have been agreed to.

Leafs interim-GM Dubas should have put his foot down and said no to the last two, especially 3. This deal wasn't so good that the Leafs had to take it. I would say it was too good a deal for Pittsburgh to walk away from. This is a GREAT trade for Pittsburgh.

Rutherford put Dubas and the other Leafs brass over his knee and spanked them.

 

[Kin]

Leafs interim-GM Dubas should have put his foot down and said no to the last two, especially 3.

And then what...gone to camp with a player they didn't want? If they could have made a better deal, they would have.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

This is the type of trade you make when you don't have a GM.

The same type as you do when you have one?

Too many concessions. 1) Leafs retained salary which they pretty much had to to get the deal done.

2) Giving back a second rounder. Shouldn't have had to give this up.

3) Conditions on the first round pick. These will likely won't matter but it shouldn't have been agreed to.

Leafs interim-GM Dubas should have put his foot down and said no to the last two, especially 3. This deal wasn't so good that the Leafs had to take it. I would say it was too good a deal for Pittsburgh to walk away from. This is a GREAT trade for Pittsburgh.

Rutherford put Dubas and the other Leafs brass over his knee and spanked them.

No need to over-exaggerate, and experienced GMs make deals that people view as poor as well.  Return is nothing to do with the Leafs' GM situation.  Neither you or I know whether a better deal could have occurred in the future.  Kessel could have suffered a freak injury.  Who knows.  People want to label this awful when it's more likely an underwhelming return based on the quality of the player but also the result of the particular circumstances of Kessel.

 

[Mike1]

Honestly, the prospects in Harrington & Kapanen make or break the deal for us. They pan out then it's not a bad deal at all. This trade deserves much more time before we can properly assess it. Let's see what Harrington & Kapanen become, let's see what they do with the first rounder before we just call it bad. Patience fellow Leafers!

As far as salary retention goes, I had more fear about paying Kessel's salary when he exits his prime & age isn't on his side anymore.

 

[dappleganger]

This is the type of trade you make when you don't have a GM.

The same type as you do when you have one?

Too many concessions. 1) Leafs retained salary which they pretty much had to to get the deal done.

2) Giving back a second rounder. Shouldn't have had to give this up.

3) Conditions on the first round pick. These will likely won't matter but it shouldn't have been agreed to.

Leafs interim-GM Dubas should have put his foot down and said no to the last two, especially 3. This deal wasn't so good that the Leafs had to take it. I would say it was too good a deal for Pittsburgh to walk away from. This is a GREAT trade for Pittsburgh.

Rutherford put Dubas and the other Leafs brass over his knee and spanked them.

No need to over-exaggerate, and experienced GMs make deals that people view as poor as well.  Return is nothing to do with the Leafs' GM situation.  Neither you or I know whether a better deal could have occurred in the future.  Kessel could have suffered a freak injury.  Who knows.  People want to label this awful when it's more likely an underwhelming return based on the quality of the player but also the result of the particular circumstances of Kessel.

Potvin, I didn't say anything about the return they got for Kessel I also didn't say it was an awful trade. This was an (inexperienced) interim-GM move. Rutherford got the best of him.

Makes me think of the Lee Stempniak for Steen and Colaiacovo trade.

 

[jdh1]

Honestly, the prospects in Harrington & Kapanen make or break the deal for us. They pan out then it's not a bad deal at all. This trade deserves much more time before we can properly assess it. Let's see what Harrington & Kapanen become, let's see what they do with the first rounder before we just call it bad. Patience fellow Leafers!

As far as salary retention goes, I had more fear about paying Kessel's salary when he exits his prime & age isn't on his side anymore.

I don't trust Kessel's work effort in the long run..He might go great initially in Pittsburg ,So I'll take this trade and see what the new players develop like under Babcock.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Seems like that's the deal.

TSNBobMcKenzie: TOR gets 1st round pick, Kapanen and Harrington for Kessel from PIT.

If this was just the trade, I would have been pretty happy actually. Kapanen is a very good prospect. Corey Pronman ranked him 28th in his rankings of the top-30 prospects in the past 3 years. That gives us 3 names on the list with Marner (11th) and Nylander (16th) as well. I remember that he was a guy I really liked in the draft and had him in consideration when it looked like we were drafting a little later than where we ended up. 

Giving up a 2nd round draft pick while trading away the teams best player sucks (even if we are getting a 3rd in return, I just can't wrap my head around it), and so does the retained salary. But I suppose that the core pieces of what I wanted are in there (top prospect, 1st rounder), so I'll just have to live with the rest. Hopefully Spaling has a huge year and we can move him for some extra value at the deadline.

 

[dappleganger]

Leafs interim-GM Dubas should have put his foot down and said no to the last two, especially 3.

And then what...gone to camp with a player they didn't want? If they could have made a better deal, they would have.

Kessel's value was at an all-time low. If Dubas can't make this trade without adding the 2nd round pick and without the conditions on the 1st round pick, I go to camp with him.

Give him lots of PP time and wait for the trade deadline.

Edit: Just ordered my new jersey. http://www.ebay.com/itm/400949334987

 

[Kin]

Kessel's value was at an all-time low. If Dubas can't make this trade without adding the 2nd round pick and without the conditions on the 1st round pick, I go to camp with him.

Give him lots of PP time and wait for the trade deadline.

During which time you risk injury to Kessel, you watch as Kessel invariably gets a year older and, in your best scenario, Kessel does really well and hurts the team's draft position.

No thanks. Leaving aside that big trades like that never get made at the deadline, the likelier scenario is that Kessel has another not-great year and they're right back where they where next year. Even if you don't think that's likely you have to admit it's a possibility and it makes sense for the Leafs to favor getting an extra year of development time with the prospects they could get for him.