Kris Versteeg

[Zee]

No but they expected him to be one of the top players on the Leafs to play with Kessel and he wasn't able to click with him.

On the basis of half a season?

Why not?  They thought they were getting a guy who would add top-line skill to the Leafs and he wasn't able to live up to that.  Considering he was hovering around the top 10 in scoring much of this season so far (he's now 21st, just 4 points out of the top 10), he certainly has the ability to be that type of player.  He just never seemed to fit here.

 

[Zee]

Burke said as much when he traded Versteeg out of town:

Burke recounted some advice he received from longtime Bruins general manager Harry Sinden back when he was a rookie GM in the business.

“When you make a mistake and get a player that’s not working out, fix it,” Burke said, recounting Sinden’s counsel. “Kris just didn’t mesh here. It’s no fault of his. He’s a good player and a good guy and he worked hard. It just wasn’t a fit. We felt this was a good price tag for him and we made the trade.”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/939484--leafs-needed-a-fix-and-price-was-right-for-versteeg-burke

The fact that Burke said "when you make a mistake on a player you fix it", indicates to me they thought they were getting more when they acquired Versteeg.  Sure it was only half a season, but life is tough in the NHL, Burke wasn't happy with him and he's gone.

 

[Kin]

Why not?  They thought they were getting a guy who would add top-line skill to the Leafs and he wasn't able to live up to that.

Again, he was on pace for a 22 goal, 55 point season despite crappy linemates and spending his PP time on the point. That's top line production, or at least it was for last year's Maple Leafs, even if it's not your definition of top line skill.

Versteeg isn't complaining about being dealt. He's outlining the circumstances of his time with the Leafs and he's more or less right about that. He got dealt, at least in part, because he had value. Bozak was far more disappointing last year but nobody in their right mind would have given the Leafs a first rounder for him.

And you're missing the point about the talk of half a season. It's not that we, or I anyway, feel bad for Versteeg. He's living in Miami getting millions to play hockey. Our issue is the speed at which Burke gave up on a guy who, as you point out, clearly had the requisite talent. My interest is in the well being of the Leafs and I don't think it was well served here.

 

[Bullfrog]

Why not?  They thought they were getting a guy who would add top-line skill to the Leafs and he wasn't able to live up to that.  Considering he was hovering around the top 10 in scoring much of this season so far (he's now 21st, just 4 points out of the top 10), he certainly has the ability to be that type of player.  He just never seemed to fit here.

Where are you getting these expectations?

 

[L K]

Through December of last year: Kessel - 23 points; Versteeg - 24
Through January of last year: Kessel - 34 ; Versteeg - 31

The complaint until Kessel went absolutely gang-busters in the 2nd half was that he didn't have a #1 center to play with.  Yet Versteeg was just a disappointing guy who didn't live up to first line status.
Versteeg was dumped so that Burke could reclaim some picks and create salary space because the blue-line was too expensive to make additional changes in the offseason.  But holding a half-season against a guy who was playing with either a terrible Bozak or a terrible Brent as their center seems more than a little unfair.

Kessel a lot of of the time in the first half of last year was guilty of many of the same things that Versteeg had issues with.  They both held on to the puck too long and weren't doing a good enough job setting up teammates for goals.  But I also remember both players feeding guys like Brent/Crabb/Bozak and having glorious chances turn into missed shots on goal, fumbled passes, and weak shots.  Versteeg didn't play amazing as a Leaf, but 53 games, especially in his first season after being traded away from an organization that was all about winning, to an organization that still didn't know what winning was, seems more than a little unfair.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't think there's any question that Burke was hoping for more out of Versteeg, and that Versteeg is right to some extent that he was not given a proper chance.  But does it matter now?  We ended up with a guy who clicks with Kessel, Versteeg gets to be a star in FLA.  Everyone should be head over heels in love with the world.

 

[Deebo]

I think when you look at the deal in isolation, you can say they gave up on Versteeg too early but the deal was made in combination with the Lupul trade a few days earlier.

My opinion is that Burke thought he could get a player who could fit better with his team in Lupul, add some quality prospect depth and clear some cap room (Versteeg and Beauchemin out, Lupul in) by making these 2 deals.

Versteeg may have blossomed here like he has in Florida, we'll never know but I think our team is better now as a result of the 2 deals and the organization has more depth. If we kept him, maybe we don't have the cap room to make the Franson trade or to bring in Connolly, both of whom I'd rather have with this group than Versteeg.

I liked Kris, and I am glad he is doing well elsewhere, but I think the opportunity presented itself to make those deals when it did last season and I'm glad Burke jumped on it. We can talk about how he didn't get the proper opportunity but in February of last year when the options were keep him and see what he can do or make those 2 deals and the window to accept them was limited, I think Burke made the right choice.

 

[bustaheims]

I think when you look at the deal in isolation, you can say they gave up on Versteeg too early but the deal was made in combination with the Lupul trade a few days earlier.

My opinion is that Burke thought he could get a player who could fit better with his team in Lupul, add some quality prospect depth and clear some cap room (Versteeg and Beauchemin out, Lupul in) by making these 2 deals.

Versteeg may have blossomed here like he has in Florida, we'll never know but I think our team is better now as a result of the 2 deals and the organization has more depth. If we kept him, maybe we don't have the cap room to make the Franson trade or to bring in Connolly, both of whom I'd rather have with this group than Versteeg.

I liked Kris, and I am glad he is doing well elsewhere, but I think the opportunity presented itself to make those deals when it did last season and I'm glad Burke jumped on it. We can talk about how he didn't get the proper opportunity but in February of last year when the options were keep him and see what he can do or make those 2 deals and the window to accept them was limited, I think Burke made the right choice.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Zee]

And you're missing the point about the talk of half a season. It's not that we, or I anyway, feel bad for Versteeg. He's living in Miami getting millions to play hockey. Our issue is the speed at which Burke gave up on a guy who, as you point out, clearly had the requisite talent. My interest is in the well being of the Leafs and I don't think it was well served here.

I have no idea why we're arguing over this when we're basically on the same page.  Burke did what he had to do with Versteeg, and the Leafs are a better team today then when Versteeg was part of the team.  Whether or not Versteeg could have fit in given more chances or whether the Leafs would be as good or better than they are now with him is a question nobody can answer.  I am quite envious that he gets to play in Florida's weather though. 

 

[Tigger]

VerScrewey? Sorry Kris, couldn't resist but why talk about it if there's no reason to get into it?

 

[Kin]

I have no idea why we're arguing over this when we're basically on the same page.  Burke did what he had to do with Versteeg, and the Leafs are a better team today then when Versteeg was part of the team. 

I guess we're arguing over it because the part I bolded indicates that we are in no way on the same page here regarding Versteeg.

 

[Kin]

If we kept him, maybe we don't have the cap room to make the Franson trade or to bring in Connolly, both of whom I'd rather have with this group than Versteeg.

I mean, it's not a mystery. Versteeg makes 3 million per. The Leafs could have accomodated that just by waiving Lombardi.

edit: And, I mean, as to your general point the Versteeg deal can be looked at in isolation because it's entirely separate from the Anaheim deal. They could have made the Anaheim deal and not traded Versteeg. It's not like Lupul came in and took Versteeg's spot in the lineup, Versteeg was already off of that line.

 

[Kin]

I don't think there's any question that Burke was hoping for more out of Versteeg, and that Versteeg is right to some extent that he was not given a proper chance.  But does it matter now?  We ended up with a guy who clicks with Kessel, Versteeg gets to be a star in FLA.  Everyone should be head over heels in love with the world.

I mean, that all adds up if the Leafs traded Versteeg for Lupul but they could have had both and the team, as is right now, could very much stand some secondary scoring.

 

[Zee]

I don't think there's any question that Burke was hoping for more out of Versteeg, and that Versteeg is right to some extent that he was not given a proper chance.  But does it matter now?  We ended up with a guy who clicks with Kessel, Versteeg gets to be a star in FLA.  Everyone should be head over heels in love with the world.

I mean, that all adds up if the Leafs traded Versteeg for Lupul but they could have had both and the team, as is right now, could very much stand some secondary scoring.

Not sure about that given the salary implications with Versteeg at just over $3M and Lupul at over $4M.  I guess if he's still there when they get Lupul we don't go out and sign Connolly this offseason. 

 

[Kin]

Not sure about that given the salary implications with Versteeg at just over $3M and Lupul at over $4M.  I guess if he's still there when they get Lupul we don't go out and sign Connolly this offseason.

Lupul didn't add to the team's salary because he got dealt for Beauchemin. Like I said above, keeping Versteeg in the summer wouldn't have meant choosing between him or Connolly but, more realistically, between him and one of Lombardi or MacArthur.

 

[Tigger]

Not sure about that given the salary implications with Versteeg at just over $3M and Lupul at over $4M.  I guess if he's still there when they get Lupul we don't go out and sign Connolly this offseason.

Like I said above, keeping Versteeg in the summer wouldn't have meant choosing between him or Connolly but, more realistically, between him and one of Lombardi or MacArthur.

Well yes but not without some questions. Lombardi couldn't be counted on to play at the time, couldn't waive him if he's on the IR.

MacArthur, who displayed some chemistry on the Grabovski line is signed for one more year where Versteeg, who didn't really mesh with any particular player, is in a contract year. On balance I think Burke made the right choice.

 

[Deebo]

Not sure about that given the salary implications with Versteeg at just over $3M and Lupul at over $4M.  I guess if he's still there when they get Lupul we don't go out and sign Connolly this offseason.

Like I said above, keeping Versteeg in the summer wouldn't have meant choosing between him or Connolly but, more realistically, between him and one of Lombardi or MacArthur.

Well yes but not without some questions. Lombardi couldn't be counted on to play at the time, couldn't waive him if he's on the IR.

MacArthur, who displayed some chemistry on the Grabovski line is signed for one more year where Versteeg, who didn't really mesh with any particular player, is in a contract year. On balance I think Burke made the right choice.

I also don't think Burke is the type of GM that would acquire an NHL calibre player like Lombardi just to bury him in the minors.

 

[Tigger]

I also don't think Burke is the type of GM that would acquire an NHL calibre player like Lombardi just to bury him in the minors.

Yeah, that's a good point and it kind of closes the door on that end to me.

 

[Kin]

I also don't think Burke is the type of GM that would acquire an NHL calibre player like Lombardi just to bury him in the minors.

I think those principles read better if he's also the type of GM who makes the playoffs.

 

[Kin]

Well yes but not without some questions. Lombardi couldn't be counted on to play at the time, couldn't waive him if he's on the IR.

But he's not automatically on the IR to start the season, right? So you'd waive him at the beginning of the season regardless.

MacArthur, who displayed some chemistry on the Grabovski line is signed for one more year where Versteeg, who didn't really mesh with any particular player, is in a contract year. On balance I think Burke made the right choice.

MacArthur was a guy with very little track record of being an impact scorer who was in a contract year when he showed that "chemistry". Now, this year, it looks like he's fallen back to earth. If we're going to attribute success to a guy being in a contract year than that's a good reason to keep Versteeg for this year and, if need be, deal him at this deadline. Looking at what the two of them have actually produced I think the argument that Burke shouldn't have done that with Mac last year is pretty tough to make convincingly.