Kyle Dubas is new Leafs GM

[Kin]

If they aren't most important why do their contracts matter so much?

Because, again, negotiating those deals was on Dubas' plate this off-season and regardless of what happened with Tavares that was always going to be true. You might have noticed that in the whole 25 page thread called "Contracts for the Big 3" that you posted in multiple
times.

  Why not include Gardiner in must do contracts then?

Because most people are assuming that the Leafs aren't likely to be able to negotiate an extension with Gardiner at a fair market value with UFA status looming. It's why, for instance, the Nylander negotiations have been almost constant daily news and nobody is reporting on any Gardiner negotiations.

But also, back to 8th grade level comprehension of the language, saying that the Leafs have three big extensions to work on does not mean they did not have other contracts to negotiate. They clearly did as they also signed Tavares. But, again, that was not a contract extension so when I said 3 contract extensions THAT WAS NOT A REFERENCE TO TAVARES.

"Big 3" was not a metaphor. I did not say "Big 3". I said BIG 3 EXTENSIONS.

Seriously LK, who is a smart person, did not have trouble with this basic use of language. Learn from him.

 

[Bates]

I don't recall Dubas ever saying that Marner and Matthews would be signed this off season??  There is only one contract that needed to be done and Dubas is going to do that  in the Leaf's best interest as he has the leverage no matter how many times you present $8 million as reasonable. There is no Big 3 with Nylander as the 3rd that's why he has little leverage. I'm following you as you are obviously the smartest guy here.

If they aren't most important why do their contracts matter so much?

Because, again, negotiating those deals was on Dubas' plate this off-season and regardless of what happened with Tavares that was always going to be true. You might have noticed that in the whole 25 page thread called "Contracts for the Big 3" that you posted in multiple
times.

  Why not include Gardiner in must do contracts then?

Because most people are assuming that the Leafs aren't likely to be able to negotiate an extension with Gardiner at a fair market value with UFA status looming. It's why, for instance, the Nylander negotiations have been almost constant daily news and nobody is reporting on any Gardiner negotiations.

But also, back to 8th grade level comprehension of the language, saying that the Leafs have three big extensions to work on does not mean they did not have other contracts to negotiate. They clearly did as they also signed Tavares. But, again, that was not a contract extension so when I said 3 contract extensions THAT WAS NOT A REFERENCE TO TAVARES.

"Big 3" was not a metaphor. I did not say "Big 3". I said BIG 3 EXTENSIONS.

Seriously LK, who is a smart person, did not have trouble with this basic use of language. Learn from him.

 

[Kin]

I don't recall Dubas ever saying that Marner and Matthews would be signed this off season??

No one is saying he did. But it would be ridiculously negligent of him to have not have at least negotiated those deals during the off-season. Not to mention counter-productive. Given the regard you clearly have for Marner and Matthews it's probably in the team's best interest for them to be signed before they get another full season and potentially 80 or 90+ points to negotiate with.

This is an incredibly mild criticism of Dubas but it is, nevertheless, clearly stated and factually accurate. Dubas would have negotiated with Marner, Matthews and Nylander this off-season. To date, he has been unable to sign any of them, let alone sign them to team-friendly deals. That is, in my opinion, not the best turn of events.

 

[Bender]

I think it's a fair point.  He boasted about signing everyone and here we are with Nylander holding out.  Ultimately a deal will eventually get done but boasting about being able to do things requires you to also perform.

If I had to guess, I'd guess Dubas somewhat regrets "We can and we will" when he could have given a more non-committal answer. Even if it's not a  huge thing it definitely gave the impression that these deals would be relatively easy to reach, the sort of thing where McDavid signed his a minute after he was allowed.

I don't think it would have impacted any of the players much but their agents may have seen it as a bit of an invitation to a challenge.

How does tough negotiating by both sides negate what he said? He didn't say it would be easy or done overnight or be without some difficulty in the negotiating process.

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[Bender]

I don't recall Dubas ever saying that Marner and Matthews would be signed this off season??

No one is saying he did. But it would be ridiculously negligent of him to have not have at least negotiated those deals during the off-season. Not to mention counter-productive. Given the regard you clearly have for Marner and Matthews it's probably in the team's best interest for them to be signed before they get another full season and potentially 80 or 90+ points to negotiate with.

This is an incredibly mild criticism of Dubas but it is, nevertheless, clearly stated and factually accurate. Dubas would have negotiated with Marner, Matthews and Nylander this off-season. To date, he has been unable to sign any of them, let alone sign them to team-friendly deals. That is, in my opinion, not the best turn of events.

We don't really know the goings on of negotiations so it's kind of hard to make too much actual reasoned criticism of really anyone during the process. Sometimes things don't the club's way and it's just kind of how things shake out rather than anyone being at fault for doing anything sub-optimally.

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[Kin]

We don't really know the goings on of negotiations so it's kind of hard to make too much actual reasoned criticism of really anyone during the process.

Sure. Which is why the criticism here is both very mild and somewhat conditional.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

If Nylander is looking for Draisaitl type money, if the stories are to be believed, I hardly fault Dubas for not getting it done yet.  I think Dubas would be criticised even more if he handed out that type of contract to Nylander.

I don't argue that maybe Dubas should have kept his yap shut in regards to the "We can and we will" statement. 

In a hard cap system, I don't envy the decisions these GM's have to make.  Yes we can argue that the teams made their own bed and now they have to sleep in it, but the reality is in a hard cap system the GM's have some difficult decisions to make, putting the best team together and make it all fit under the cap. 

One of the hardest decisions Dubas may have to make is the possibility of having to trade Nylander.  Having 4 players taking up almost half your cap space is going to be difficult. 

 

[Kin]

If Nylander is looking for Draisaitl type money, if the stories are to be believed, I hardly fault Dubas for not getting it done yet.  I think Dubas would be criticised even more if he handed out that type of contract to Nylander.

I feel like Nylander and his asks and the reasonableness therein has been kicked over enough in the other thread. What I'm saying here is that if Dubas has tried to get all three guys to sign this off-season, and like I said given the years we're all hoping Marner and Matthews are about to have he probably should have been, he's been 0 for 3.

Like I said in my spicy hot take, I'm still open to the possibility that Dubas does a decent job in these negotiations when all is said and done but not having any of them signed right now seems like a bad indication.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

If Nylander is looking for Draisaitl type money, if the stories are to be believed, I hardly fault Dubas for not getting it done yet.  I think Dubas would be criticised even more if he handed out that type of contract to Nylander.

I feel like Nylander and his asks and the reasonableness therein has been kicked over enough in the other thread. What I'm saying here is that if Dubas has tried to get all three guys to sign this off-season, and like I said given the years we're all hoping Marner and Matthews are about to have he probably should have been, he's been 0 for 3.

Like I said in my spicy hot take, I'm still open to the possibility that Dubas does a decent job in these negotiations when all is said and done but not having any of them signed right now seems like a bad indication.

It doesn't look good right now, but also I think particularly Matthews and Marner are playing their cards right by playing out the final year.  I don't know what Dubas could have done to convince them to sign an extension this summer, other than throw crazy money and term at them. 

 

[Kin]

It doesn't look good right now, but also I think particularly Matthews and Marner are playing their cards right by playing out the final year.  I don't know what Dubas could have done to convince them to sign an extension this summer, other than throw crazy money and term at them.

I'm not sure what crazy term would be here. I don't think any of us would think it would be crazy if all three guys signed max term deals so unless by crazy you mean really short term deals I'm not sure what that might be.

Beyond that though it feels like there's a middle ground between something super team friendly and something crazy money-wise and that's a fair deal that's inline with other contracts for very, very good young players with franchise-y talent.

If none of Matthews, Marner or Nylander are open to something like that it would strike me as a pretty big coincidence.

 

[ZBBM]

I think people who are buying into Sportsnet Armageddon talk need to take a deep breath.  He'll get signed, the season will go on, and I doubt whether his missing camp will make much difference.

 

[Zee]

Although the "we can and we will" got allot of play, Dubas also said something to the effect of it'll take time and may not happen as quickly as fans would like.

 

[Coco-puffs]

Although the "we can and we will" got allot of play, Dubas also said something to the effect of it'll take time and may not happen as quickly as fans would like.

Yes, he stated a few times that "we will be patient"

 

[cabber24]

Although the "we can and we will" got allot of play, Dubas also said something to the effect of it'll take time and may not happen as quickly as fans would like.

Yes, he stated a few times that "we will be patient"

I hope the Marner contract gets signed by the end of this season. He's liable to score 100 pts.

 

[Zee]

Although the "we can and we will" got allot of play, Dubas also said something to the effect of it'll take time and may not happen as quickly as fans would like.

Yes, he stated a few times that "we will be patient"

I hope the Marner contract gets signed by the end of this season. He's liable to score 100 pts.

I think Dubas wants to get both done in season (Marner and Matthews) but has to get this Nylander crap off his plate first.

 

[herman]

One of Dubas' first moves was to rope in skills consultant Darryl Belfry to focus on building up a select core of Marlies players in preparation for translating their success to the NHL.

https://twitter.com/alex_prewitt/status/1042612801209094149

Craig Custance roped Belfry into a Q&A for his podcast!

https://soundcloud.com/user-38892502-274623174/the-full-60-episode-44-darryl-belfry

https://twitter.com/craigcustance/status/1044734392038576129

 

[Zee]

Buddy of mine's brother met Dubas today at the MasterCard center -- he had no idea who he was. He told his brother this really nice young guy in glasses came out of an office and just started chatting, really down to earth. My buddy was laughing and told him he met Dubas. He also talked to Shanahan but of course he knew who Shanahan was.

 

[Fanatic]

If Nylander starts to miss regular season games I am not sure who will be feeling the pressure more.

Ordinarily I would say that the team holds all the cards and the pressure is on the player (given the nature of this CBA), but in this case I have to believe that Dubas will be feeling some pressure as well. More so because of his comments about being confident in getting them all done and that he is a rookie GM.

 

[Zee]

If Nylander starts to miss regular season games I am not sure who will be feeling the pressure more.

Ordinarily I would say that the team holds all the cards and the pressure is on the player (given the nature of this CBA), but in this case I have to believe that Dubas will be feeling some pressure as well. More so because of his comments about being confident in getting them all done and that he is a rookie GM.

I'm sure Dubas has the full support of Shanahan and company.  It's not Dubas that'll be missing paychecks after Oct 3rd, it's Nylander.  More pressure is on Willy to get back.

 

[Kin]

If Nylander starts to miss regular season games I am not sure who will be feeling the pressure more.

Ordinarily I would say that the team holds all the cards and the pressure is on the player (given the nature of this CBA), but in this case I have to believe that Dubas will be feeling some pressure as well. More so because of his comments about being confident in getting them all done and that he is a rookie GM.

I think a lot of it will have to do with how the Leafs start the season. If they come out firing I think Dubas will be largely pressure free. A rough start and there'll definitely be noise.