GhostofPotvin29
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Apparently had a fractured foot when he went to New Jersey last season.
Leafs acquire Steckel from NJ
- Thread starter bustaheims
- Start date
On the question about why not Betts, I strongly suspect the Flyers, like most NHL teams who knew at some point prior to yesterday that they were going to waive him, contacted teams to see if they could get something for him. Better to get something than nothing. Maybe that's how Burke got wind of Steckel as Lou was trying to make cap room for Sykora.
I was interested in Betts when the Flyers signed him. I presume the Leafs just made a choice that they preferred Steckel for a 4th rounder than Betts for a 7th or off waivers if another team didn't pick him up. Maybe Betts is banged up ...?
I was interested in Betts when the Flyers signed him. I presume the Leafs just made a choice that they preferred Steckel for a 4th rounder than Betts for a 7th or off waivers if another team didn't pick him up. Maybe Betts is banged up ...?
GhostofPotvin29
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Erndog said:
For some reason I was under the impression he played the full season with NJ - didn't realize it was only 20 games or so.
Here's a more positive article on Steckel's face-off abilities from Feb. 2011 in Washington: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/10/AR2011021007372.html
The article also mentions strong PK work, but the forums say otherwise, so who knows. Fans sometimes are good for analysis, sometimes react too emotionally to players.
GhostofPotvin29
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cw said:
Read a couple comments (and maybe just speculation) that Betts' shoulder injury has affected his play.
BlueWhiteBlood
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I think Bozak is stronger than people are giving him credit for and that he may have to fill Connolly's role for a while and let Lombardi get back up to speed on the 3rd line. I thought Bozak looked primed for a break out season, we all saw how good he was when he hit the ice this pre-season.
I'll say this, if this is indeed a precursor to another deal and we end up trading Bozak and Gunnarsson, we better get a very good young center in return, even if we have to sweeten the pot a bit. I'll be very disappointed if we trade both those two players for an older Morrow or the like. While I'm not knocking Morrow, Bozak and Gunnarsson are products of our system and should be kept or traded for youngish talent in return IMO.
I'll say this, if this is indeed a precursor to another deal and we end up trading Bozak and Gunnarsson, we better get a very good young center in return, even if we have to sweeten the pot a bit. I'll be very disappointed if we trade both those two players for an older Morrow or the like. While I'm not knocking Morrow, Bozak and Gunnarsson are products of our system and should be kept or traded for youngish talent in return IMO.
maplesyrup
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Hard to not like this deal. Stackel improves our PK and gives us much needed size up the middle. We paid very little fot him and his cap number is pretty good. Being the best faceoff man in the business is nice too. Lets get this **** started!
Kin
New member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
At some point though the Leafs have to deal with the reality of what happens if everyone is healthy and playing well and what that means in terms of ice time. Bozak isn't an ideal #3 centre and may very well be outplayed by Lombardi in that role. If Connolly is healthy do you play Bozak on the 4th? Even if Steckel proves himself terrific on the PK? Unless Bozak establishes himself as serious competition with Connolly for the #1 job he very well may not have a spot.
BlueWhiteBlood said:
You're probably over valuing those guys a bit there. If those guys get squeezed out it doesn't make them worth top young talent.
For some stupid reason I just opened a link to a Beckett article where he totally omits Hedmans hit and puts Crosby's concussion on Steckel...
"Steckel is perhaps best remembered for being the player who collided with Sidney Crosby in last year's Winter Classic. The hit caused the Penguins' superstar to miss the remainder of last year and the start of this year's campaign due to the lingering effects of a concussion."
Way to go Ken, way to go.
"Steckel is perhaps best remembered for being the player who collided with Sidney Crosby in last year's Winter Classic. The hit caused the Penguins' superstar to miss the remainder of last year and the start of this year's campaign due to the lingering effects of a concussion."
Way to go Ken, way to go.
Corn Flake
New member
leafplasma said:
Yeah it could go that way too but I'm just mulling out loud the idea of Bozak moving on and not so much because he's no good but just based on available players plus the kids coming up from below. I could see something happening in a month, but not right away.
Kadri has to be given a legit shot at centre at some point and he could back fill Lombardi if he gets hurt again. Colborne will probably be either ready later this year or next.
Connoly/Grabbo/Lombardi/Steckel is a respectable top 4 centres, with Kadri/Colborne/Boyce/Dupuis in behind able to step in.
Corn Flake
New member
Tigger said:
its pretty bizarre how the Hedman hit seems to go unnoticed.
If Steckel did the damage with his hit and Crosby was legitimately concussed, then the onus should be on the Pens for letting him play long enough to get crunched again by Hedman only days later.
Thats where the blame should lie, IMO. Steckel gets way too much of the heat for this.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Saint Nik said:
Lombardi will be lucky to stay healthy and earn the 3rd line role, certainly this early in the season. I don't think anyone can count on Lombardi enough to trade away Bozak at this particular time. Connolly? Well, I won't count on him either, until he proves he can stay in the line-up, let alone practice. I think the centers will end up like this for a while.
Grabbo
Bozak
Lombardi
Steckel
When everybody is healthy, yeah, they might have to make a decision, but IMO, the 4 players above should be ahead of Connolly as far as trades/ movement go, as Connolly was always a stop-gap and not a big part of this team going forward from what I see. If Connolly ends up being traded or waived, I won't be too upset about it.
I'd let Lombardi take care of where he fits in there as the 1, 2 or 3 guy.
Maybe, but you also missed that more would be added to the deal potentially, I left that open.
maplesyrup
New member
Bob Mckenzie reviewed the hit in light of the trade last night... Said Steckel not at fault.
Kin
New member
BlueWhiteBlood said:
But there's still a reality of what happens with a healthy team which, even with Connolly and Lombardi's health, is likelier to be the case than not. If Bozak is the guy squeezed out there talent wise and he's sitting in the press box in those situations than his value is going to decrease. If the team sees that as the situation then there are advantages to dealing him before that.
BlueWhiteBlood said:
I didn't miss it, I just think that you're then coming close to proposing one of those "five nickels for a quarter" trades that never really materialize. Sure, other things could be added to Bozak/Gunnarson but to add up to a top young centre those other things would have to comprise the bulk of the value in any such trade in which case Bozak and Gunnar are largely incidental to the trade anyway. Might as well deal Bozak/Gunnar on their own for a more realistic return.
BlueWhiteBlood
New member
Saint Nik said:
So, if Connolly and Lombardi both get hurt, which isn't out of the realm of possibility, then I guess we get to deal with Boyce and Zigomanis to take us places. I don't like that option personally.
I'm not going to suggest anything, I'll let Burke and Co. deal with that. We have plenty of other prospects and picks that could change the deal(s) for both of those two players, they don't even have to be dealt together.
All I'm saying is that if we do decide to deal those two players, I hope we don't end up further increasing our age and ending up with a team full of near end of prime guys just to make the playoffs and watch some of the talent we traded away, thrive and go deep in the playoffs somewhere else. It's not that I don't have faith in Burke's trading ability, I just think Connolly should stay a stop gap, not a valuable piece. Lombardi will determine where he fits on his own.
BlueWhiteBlood said:
Bozak did look pretty good in preseason ... but that was only for two games before he got hurt. His body of work last season still carries some raised eyebrows for me. He was -29 and we're trying to convert that into a partial checking role. He's 25 which is not a youngster for a NHL forward though one may argue he's a late bloomer. There's a lot of centers in the NHL who would darn near kill for the opportunity he had last season to center for Phil Kessel.
I'm a Leafs fan and hope for the best. I do not dislike Bozak and hope he bounces back towards the potential they hoped for when they signed him. But with Connolly, Grabovski, Lombardi & Steckel, if Bozak was part of a deal to upgrade the top six, I would not automatically grieve his departure while recognizing he may turn out to be a useful player.
When another NHL team is looking at Bozak for compensation in a trade, I can't believe the -29 and his season last year doesn't give them pause and haggling ability that would depress expectations on his return.
Gunnarsson is a little different to me. At 24, he's closer to effectively three years younger in terms of development because forwards tend to develop faster - very roughly a forward at 22 is like a dman at 24-25 yrs old. Because he's a Euro, I'd give him the extra year. He's reasonably paid and useful in that he can play PP (I think he has some more upside to come there), PK and even strength. And he's demonstrated that he's gotten physically stronger this preseason. I'd hope to get more in return for Gunnarsson if he must be moved.
As for young value in return, it's playoffs or the unemployment line for Wilson this year. If the OTPP sells their controlling stake in MLSE, Burke may follow Wilson out the door as it's common for a new owner to put their own people in at the top - particularly if they're partially justified by another season without playoffs. So Burke may spend a little youth trying to avoid that outcome. I'd prefer he didn't but if I were in his boots, I'd probably do it just like Quinn did (trading Boyes) when Peddie effectively told him he was done as GM during the announcement of the sale by Stavro. In other words, it wouldn't shock me if a little mortgaging went on this season trying to secure management jobs (while of course being justified otherwise ..).