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Leafs acquire Steckel from NJ

why do people assume frattin over lombardi?  Honestly lombardi hasn't earned a spot on the team you're just putting him there when he hasn't been healthy for over a year and is still recovering.
 
McPwnage said:
why do people assume frattin over lombardi?  Honestly lombardi hasn't earned a spot on the team you're just putting him there when he hasn't been healthy for over a year and is still recovering.
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I'd assume Waiver issues have a pretty big role in that.
 
TML fan said:
As if anyone needed any more reasons to hate the Leafs, they go out and get the guy who may have ended Crosby's career...
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its probably been said in this thread but does anyone not have access to the replay of the Hedman hit on Crosby? I mean there were two hits... that one came after the Steckel one.
 
According to some of the self proclaimed experts on twitter, players who are really good on faceoffs are overrated.  I really don't know where to start (or stop laughing) with that one. 

(Yes I've seen the funny little stats that they try to use to prove this)
 
Those are probably the same people that think assists are nothing and only goals are what determines a good player.
 
Corn Flake said:
According to some of the self proclaimed experts on twitter, players who are really good on faceoffs are overrated.  I really don't know where to start (or stop laughing) with that one. 

(Yes I've seen the funny little stats that they try to use to prove this)
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I hate the small font thing. This is better:

(Yes I've seen the funny little stats that they try to use to prove this)
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It's an interesting idea that I'd have to see more on to really gauge it. One of the things that's always struck me about face-off numbers is the relatively small spread between the best and the worst. When we're talking about a guy winning 60% of his face-offs we're talking about, at most, four extra wins over a 40% guy over the course of a game. That doesn't even factor in that most guys face-off numbers, I'd assume, are inflated a little because of the draws they take against wingers.

Obviously there are situations where winning a face-off is crucial but I'd be interested to see if, in those situations where both teams have their best face-off guys out there, there was much of a split at all.

Either way, I wouldn't just reject the idea out of hand because it challenges conventional wisdom.
 
Saint Nik said:
It's an interesting idea that I'd have to see more on to really gauge it. One of the things that's always struck me about face-off numbers is the relatively small spread between the best and the worst. When we're talking about a guy winning 60% of his face-offs we're talking about, at most, four extra wins over a 40% guy over the course of a game. That doesn't even factor in that most guys face-off numbers, I'd assume, are inflated a little because of the draws they take against wingers.

Obviously there are situations where winning a face-off is crucial but I'd be interested to see if, in those situations where both teams have their best face-off guys out there, there was much of a split at all.

Either way, I wouldn't just reject the idea out of hand because it challenges conventional wisdom.
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What's the subtext here, Nik?  Are you saying that when JFJ re-acquired Yannick Perreault that it was a BAD move??
 
Saint Nik said:
It's an interesting idea that I'd have to see more on to really gauge it. One of the things that's always struck me about face-off numbers is the relatively small spread between the best and the worst. When we're talking about a guy winning 60% of his face-offs we're talking about, at most, four extra wins over a 40% guy over the course of a game. That doesn't even factor in that most guys face-off numbers, I'd assume, are inflated a little because of the draws they take against wingers.

Obviously there are situations where winning a face-off is crucial but I'd be interested to see if, in those situations where both teams have their best face-off guys out there, there was much of a split at all.

Either way, I wouldn't just reject the idea out of hand because it challenges conventional wisdom.
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I've read a lot of the bloggers who have written about the subject and while there is merit to their theory that a higher faceoff percentage doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things, most seem to generalize a little bit to make it work.

Here are some:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/faceoff.html
http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/psh/comments/the_importance_of_faceoffs/
http://www.shutdownline.com/hurricanes/statistical-analysis/how-important-are-face-offs.html

As you know I'm not a stats junkie but to me, when you have a guy who is over 60% in defensive zone or PK faceoffs, he's the guy you want on the ice with 40 seconds left while protecting a 1-goal lead. A few of those won and not lost can easily mean 1-2 extra wins, which can easily be the difference between post season or not.
 
Moot Point said:
Reading between the lines, does this mean Connolly is more seriously injured than we are lead to believe?
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Yes. Because Connolly is injured, the Leafs acquired the 4th line centre they were looking for since before they signed Connolly.
 
Corn Flake said:
As you know I'm not a stats junkie but to me, when you have a guy who is over 60% in defensive zone or PK faceoffs, he's the guy you want on the ice with 40 seconds left while protecting a 1-goal lead. A few of those won and not lost can easily mean 1-2 extra wins, which can easily be the difference between post season or not.
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I followed the links for a bit and one of the things I came away with primarily is that a lot of those writers seem to allow that while being good on face-offs is certainly a positive it's not as important as a player being good defensively. That's something we can all probably agree on.

One of the problems with most advanced hockey metrics is that there's always an element of subjectivity to them and, like fielding metrics in baseball, you have to be careful about throwing them around in absolute terms. Reading the data a lot of them also make the point I do about the relatively low split between the good face-off guys and the bad ones and that's probably the strongest argument here, especially when you consider the things that have to do with face-offs that have nothing to do with the guys taking them.

Either way, like I said, I wouldn't rush to say that players who have good face-off numbers are overrated but I do think it's an interesting question and, at the very least, we shouldn't use 50% as some magical threshold.
 
Potvin29 said:
Saint Nik said:
I can't pretend to know a ton about him but the numbers look good. I wonder a little bit about his purchase price/availability but I suppose if the financial stories about the Devils are true this may be a spot where they were looking to reduce their payroll a little.

It seems as though consensus is that he squeezes Frattin out of the lineup for now? That's interesting as people seemed pretty high on him but obviously Frattin's a guy who could probably get some more seasoning as well.
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From a NJ beat reporter:

TGfireandice Tom Gulitti
Lamoriello on trade:"It certainly frees up a roster spot for a combination of us looking into seeing what we can do with Petr Sykora.."
...

Lamoriello cont: "...also the young players Henrique and Tedenby and Brad Mills, Cam Janssen, I think they?ve warranted being on the roster"
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Wait...Brad Mills and Cam Janssen are HOCKEY players?...
 
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