Leafs claim Frazer McLaren on waivers from San Jose

[Kin]

Fighting is up this season. Roughly half the games have at least 1 fight.

.68 fights per game is ahead of the original 6 period in the 50-60s which was about .25 fights per game. It's the highest level in at least 10 years. It is about 55% more than last season.

That's true but it's also a pretty drastic departure from a pretty straight line that's seen fighting on a pretty constant decline since the 70's. Until we see another year of an upswing I think it's probably safer to say that what we've seen over the last 20-30 years is going to continue until fighting is about as rare as it was in the original six period. Once there's only a fight every four games or so I think it's a pretty easy step to getting rid of it all together.

 

[Redleaf]

If the goons were eliminated, I mean the guys with limited hockey skills just put on the ice to fight, who would be the best fighter in the league? Lucic ?

I think Chara.

Does Chara really fight though, or just merry-go-round opponents like rag dolls?

 

[cw]

Fighting is up this season. Roughly half the games have at least 1 fight.

.68 fights per game is ahead of the original 6 period in the 50-60s which was about .25 fights per game. It's the highest level in at least 10 years. It is about 55% more than last season.

That's true but it's also a pretty drastic departure from a pretty straight line that's seen fighting on a pretty constant decline since the 70's. Until we see another year of an upswing I think it's probably safer to say that what we've seen over the last 20-30 years is going to continue until fighting is about as rare as it was in the original six period. Once there's only a fight every four games or so I think it's a pretty easy step to getting rid of it all together.

I'm not positive you're right in predicting when and how it will decline. But eventually, it will get there.

Here's a chart of fighting frequency since the 50s
http://dropyourgloves.com/Fights/FightsPerGameChart.aspx

Sadly, I've been expecting something tragic to happen (beyond some of the recent enforcers lost) - where a player gets killed or very severely injured during a game in a fight. I think that will have the effect, kind of like the shooting at Sandy Hook has had on gun control, where it brings more folks to their senses and from that great pressure to solve the "problem" once and for all. And a difference between the gun control issue and fighting in hockey is that the league is a business in complete control and they'll probably be more responsive to the demands of their customers than the US government has been due to ideological gridlock on the 2nd amendment.

I hope I'm wrong and they can avoid the tragedy. But Bill Masterton's death from a head injury during a game ultimately sparked the league to press for the players to wear helmets. It was the Sandy Hook for that safety issue. Back then, teams didn't allow players to wear helmets routinely. You were yellow or a sissy if you did and many teams would send you down or trade you if you wore a helmet.

The other hope is that these medical studies on concussions get some conclusive results on fighting that forces the leagues hand before someone is lost tragically.

 

[Kin]

The other hope is that these medical studies on concussions get some conclusive results on fighting that forces the leagues hand before someone is lost tragically.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that it'll be some sort of combination of that and movement in the lawsuits that the NFL is fighting on the issue to eventually just make it a liability issue for the league.

 

[Kin]

If the goons were eliminated, I mean the guys with limited hockey skills just put on the ice to fight, who would be the best fighter in the league? Lucic ?

I think Chara.

Does Chara really fight though, or just merry-go-round opponents like rag dolls?

You tell me:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9TemTZlweo[/youtube]

 

[Redleaf]

If the goons were eliminated, I mean the guys with limited hockey skills just put on the ice to fight, who would be the best fighter in the league? Lucic ?

I think Chara.

Does Chara really fight though, or just merry-go-round opponents like rag dolls?

You tell me:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9TemTZlweo[/youtube]

I'm unable to see that on my ipad for some reason, but it was just a joke. The guys like Andre The Giant.

 

[Kin]

I'm unable to see that on my ipad for some reason, but it was just a joke. The guy's a giant.

It's Chara vs. David Koci. He throws some pretty devastating punches, leaves Koci a bit of a mess. Worth a watch if you get the chance.

 

[cw]

The other hope is that these medical studies on concussions get some conclusive results on fighting that forces the leagues hand before someone is lost tragically.

If I were a betting man, I'd say that it'll be some sort of combination of that and movement in the lawsuits that the NFL is fighting on the issue to eventually just make it a liability issue for the league.

That's a very good point. Lots of lawyers will have Gary's and the owners ear on the outcome of those lawsuits.

 

[moon111]

Maybe they should toss the instigator rule and give an extra 2 minutes if your helmet/mandatory face shield comes off. 

 

[TML fan]

I'm not convinced fighting in hockey is going away. Fighting doesn't detract enough from the game to justify removing it. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice whether or not to drop the gloves.

To the poster who mentioned Derek Boogaard. Fighting is the only reason Derek Boogaard even had a job in the NHL. It's not really fair to blame the sport or the league for condoning it when it was Boogaard's choice to make his living that way.

Your bolded is exactly the crux of the issue.  I won't pursue this argument further but if you read the NYT series on his life and death, they present some pretty compelling evidence that his "choice" was enabled by several teams along the way, not the least of which were the Wild and the Rangers.

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

 

[Kin]

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

I don't think that's what ZBBM is referring to. You really should read the NYT series about him.

 

[cw]

I'm not convinced fighting in hockey is going away. Fighting doesn't detract enough from the game to justify removing it. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice whether or not to drop the gloves.

To the poster who mentioned Derek Boogaard. Fighting is the only reason Derek Boogaard even had a job in the NHL. It's not really fair to blame the sport or the league for condoning it when it was Boogaard's choice to make his living that way.

Your bolded is exactly the crux of the issue.  I won't pursue this argument further but if you read the NYT series on his life and death, they present some pretty compelling evidence that his "choice" was enabled by several teams along the way, not the least of which were the Wild and the Rangers.

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

He average 42 games per season for the Wild. At 5 mins a game that he typically would play, he would play 16 hours of hockey for the Rangers over four seasons and they contracted him $6.5 mil guaranteed to do that.

So he could walk away for a $50,000 per year job driving a bus or ... make $400,000 per hour of hockey played. It would be pretty tough to walk away from that.

 

[TML fan]

I'm not convinced fighting in hockey is going away. Fighting doesn't detract enough from the game to justify removing it. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice whether or not to drop the gloves.

To the poster who mentioned Derek Boogaard. Fighting is the only reason Derek Boogaard even had a job in the NHL. It's not really fair to blame the sport or the league for condoning it when it was Boogaard's choice to make his living that way.

Your bolded is exactly the crux of the issue.  I won't pursue this argument further but if you read the NYT series on his life and death, they present some pretty compelling evidence that his "choice" was enabled by several teams along the way, not the least of which were the Wild and the Rangers.

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

He average 42 games per season for the Wild. At 5 mins a game that he typically would play, he would play 16 hours of hockey for the Rangers over four seasons and they contracted him $6.5 mil guaranteed to do that.

So he could walk away for a $50,000 per year job driving a bus or ... make $400,000 per hour of hockey played. It would be pretty tough to walk away from that.

Would you rather work for $50,000 or be dead?

 

[cw]

I'm not convinced fighting in hockey is going away. Fighting doesn't detract enough from the game to justify removing it. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice whether or not to drop the gloves.

To the poster who mentioned Derek Boogaard. Fighting is the only reason Derek Boogaard even had a job in the NHL. It's not really fair to blame the sport or the league for condoning it when it was Boogaard's choice to make his living that way.

Your bolded is exactly the crux of the issue.  I won't pursue this argument further but if you read the NYT series on his life and death, they present some pretty compelling evidence that his "choice" was enabled by several teams along the way, not the least of which were the Wild and the Rangers.

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

He average 42 games per season for the Wild. At 5 mins a game that he typically would play, he would play 16 hours of hockey for the Rangers over four seasons and they contracted him $6.5 mil guaranteed to do that.

So he could walk away for a $50,000 per year job driving a bus or ... make $400,000 per hour of hockey played. It would be pretty tough to walk away from that.

Would you rather work for $50,000 or be dead?

Obviously a rhetorical question.

But that obviously isn't the question this guy asked himself when they put that contract down in front of him to sign.

1. He probably still had a sense of youthful invincibility. He would certainly have some sense of invincibility as very arguably the best fighter in the NHL

2. He was pretty messed up on drugs so his judgement was very likely impaired.

3. And from that drug problem and his career development, he gradually evolved to where he found himself. It wasn't like he woke up one day and suddenly firmly concluded "I think I'm going to die today if I don't stop". I'm sure he had some tough moments but I doubt it was ever black and white.

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[TML fan]

I'm not convinced fighting in hockey is going away. Fighting doesn't detract enough from the game to justify removing it. At the end of the day, everyone has a choice whether or not to drop the gloves.

To the poster who mentioned Derek Boogaard. Fighting is the only reason Derek Boogaard even had a job in the NHL. It's not really fair to blame the sport or the league for condoning it when it was Boogaard's choice to make his living that way.

Your bolded is exactly the crux of the issue.  I won't pursue this argument further but if you read the NYT series on his life and death, they present some pretty compelling evidence that his "choice" was enabled by several teams along the way, not the least of which were the Wild and the Rangers.

Boogaard could have said no and spent his days in the AHL or some other league he was good enough to play in. Or he could have gotten a regular job like everyone else who isn't good enough to play hockey.

He did have a choice. He could have walked away.

He average 42 games per season for the Wild. At 5 mins a game that he typically would play, he would play 16 hours of hockey for the Rangers over four seasons and they contracted him $6.5 mil guaranteed to do that.

So he could walk away for a $50,000 per year job driving a bus or ... make $400,000 per hour of hockey played. It would be pretty tough to walk away from that.

Would you rather work for $50,000 or be dead?

Obviously a rhetorical question.

But that obviously isn't the question this guy asked himself when they put that contract down in front of him to sign.

1. He probably still had a sense of youthful invincibility. He would certainly have some sense of invincibility as very arguably the best fighter in the NHL

2. He was pretty messed up on drugs so his judgement was very likely impaired.

3. And from that drug problem and his career development, he gradually evolved to where he found himself. It wasn't like he woke up one day and suddenly firmly concluded "I think I'm going to die today if I don't stop". I'm sure he had some tough moments but I doubt it was ever black and white.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Ok, but it still doesn't mean he didn't have a choice. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that repeated blows to the head is bad for you. He chose to earn his living that way. He decided that the money was worth the risk.

 

[Britishbulldog]

If the goons were eliminated, I mean the guys with limited hockey skills just put on the ice to fight, who would be the best fighter in the league? Lucic ?

I think Chara.

Does Chara really fight though, or just merry-go-round opponents like rag dolls?

You tell me:

I'm unable to see that on my ipad for some reason, but it was just a joke. The guys like Andre The Giant.

That fight is BS though.  If you remember the fights that year Koci had just fought our own Belak 7 days earlier who pounded him so bad Koci was cut and had a broken nose. 

Koci is a worse fighter than Andre Deveaux and Tom Sestito.  I can show videos of how bad Chara is as a fighter with a player that knows how to fight.  Again, Chara seems to easily be the strongest player in the league and plays with class but I strongly disagree that he is the best regular roster fighter in the league.

 

[Britishbulldog]

This is the crap that happens when a goon plays against a player who can fight smart as well as scored 10 goals in 2010/11!!  John Scott has only 1 goal in his whole career (since 2008)!  Shawn only played 16 seconds and had to leave the game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bAJcnDsu4nE[/youtube]
Last year Lucic pounded on Gaustad when Paul tried to defend his goalie Miller being run, Chara 10 minutes later over powered Regehr and Shawn beat up McCormick.

This summer Buffalo gets Scott, tonight he hurts Shawn and no one on Boston touches Miller.  Buffalo wins 7-4.

Boston plays skilled, tough, clean hockey that I secretly admire.  I am glad that Miller was safe tonight but I still don't think that a gorilla on skates is the answer.  Oh...and it was also a idiotic staged fight. 

I hope Shawn's OK and I hope that the Leafs can compete with Boston's skill and toughness with regular hockey players that can play a regular shift.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Wouldn't Lucic running Miller contradict your assertion that they play clean?

 

[maplesyrup]

Should have been Lucic.

 

[BrownRolo]

This is the crap that happens when a goon plays against a player who can fight smart as well as scored 10 goals in 2010/11!!  John Scott has only 1 goal in his whole career (since 2008)!  Shawn only played 16 seconds and had to leave the game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bAJcnDsu4nE[/youtube]
Last year Lucic pounded on Gaustad when Paul tried to defend his goalie Miller being run, Chara 10 minutes later over powered Regehr and Shawn beat up McCormick.

This summer Buffalo gets Scott, tonight he hurts Shawn and no one on Boston touches Miller.  Buffalo wins 7-4.

Boston plays skilled, tough, clean hockey that I secretly admire.  I am glad that Miller was safe tonight but I still don't think that a gorilla on skates is the answer.  Oh...and it was also a idiotic staged fight. 

I hope Shawn's OK and I hope that the Leafs can compete with Boston's skill and toughness with regular hockey players that can play a regular shift.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't consider Thornton to be that clean of a player. He got his butt whipped, and I don't feel too sorry for him to be honest.

Plus, if you get a chance listen to the homer Bruins announcers right before the fight...man, I hate those guys. Are there any announcers worse than them?