Leafs hire Kyle Dubas as assistant GM, Loiselle and Poulin Dismissed

[rdowdall]

bradyfan590: Told explicitly Shanahan had hoped to clean house in front office & hire Dubas NEXT summer. Another Eastern team was set to hire him now.

I did get the feeling that this season was going more of a transitional year than a building year.

I don't understand this approach.  If you know this is what you were going to do next summer, why wait?  Just to see if Dubas is a flash in the pan?  To make really really sure that you don't think Loiselle and Poulin can do the job that you want them too?

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

bradyfan590: Told explicitly Shanahan had hoped to clean house in front office & hire Dubas NEXT summer. Another Eastern team was set to hire him now.

I did get the feeling that this season was going more of a transitional year than a building year.

I'll say one thing, it seems like when Shanny makes a decision, he pretty much sticks to it.

 

[bustaheims]

I don't understand this approach.  If you know this is what you were going to do next summer, why wait?  Just to see if Dubas is a flash in the pan?  To make really really sure that you don't think Loiselle and Poulin can do the job that you want them too?

I think it's more of a professional courtesy. Shanny didn't want to come in with no experience running an NHL team and completely clean house right away. I think he really wanted to give guys like Loiselle and Poulin an opportunity to change his mind, but, obviously, he didn't want to lose out on Dubas, either.

 

[bustaheims]

Also interesting:

Hope_Smoke: Kypreos (and Poulin and Loiselle confirmed this) that those two were often in the Leafs dressing room discussing things with players

Hope_Smoke: Kypreos mentioned how Leaf players said it was a problem because there were too many voices in the room providing instruction

 

[Fanatic]

To be sure that I understand that.... Loiselle and Poulin were in the dressing room talking to players? If that is what you are saying, isn't that a bit (actually a lot) weird?

 

[ZBBM]

I don't know anything about this guy Dubas, but if this is the beginning of a major shift in philosophy why did it make sense to rehire the one guy who has more impact on the on-ice play and who has shown not the slightest inclination to change or modernize his coaching style?  If this is culture change, it's not even half-baked at best.

 

[bustaheims]

To be sure that I understand that.... Loiselle and Poulin were in the dressing room talking to players? If that is what you are saying, isn't that a bit (actually a lot) weird?

I guess that depends on how often it happens. I imagine it's not unusual for front office types to drop by the dressing room once in a while, but, if it's happening on a regular basis, then, yes, it's probably a little weird.

 

[Kin]

I don't know anything about this guy Dubas, but if this is the beginning of a major shift in philosophy why did it make sense to rehire the one guy who has more impact on the on-ice play and who has shown not the slightest inclination to change or modernize his coaching style?  If this is culture change, it's not even half-baked at best.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to put any of this in context when it's still attached to the significantly larger decisions to keep Nonis and Carlyle around.

I mean, I maybe appreciate that Shanahan didn't want to come in and just start firing people left and right but it seems like this is a worse approach where you have an entire organization with divided loyalties and agendas.

 

[Kin]

I don't understand this approach.  If you know this is what you were going to do next summer, why wait?  Just to see if Dubas is a flash in the pan?  To make really really sure that you don't think Loiselle and Poulin can do the job that you want them too?

I think it's more of a professional courtesy. Shanny didn't want to come in with no experience running an NHL team and completely clean house right away. I think he really wanted to give guys like Loiselle and Poulin an opportunity to change his mind, but, obviously, he didn't want to lose out on Dubas, either.

Why are those the only paths though? Will Dubas be doing things that directly infringed on what Loiselle and Poulin did? Because if not there's no reason you couldn't keep all of them.

It's kind of beyond weird to make front office changes in the off-season after the free agency period and the draft. Is Shanahan saying that the team did badly in those stretches? Is that the summer long test Loiselle and Poulin failed? It seems to me that it's pretty important to have the right guys in place for those things.

 

[ZBBM]

I don't know anything about this guy Dubas, but if this is the beginning of a major shift in philosophy why did it make sense to rehire the one guy who has more impact on the on-ice play and who has shown not the slightest inclination to change or modernize his coaching style?  If this is culture change, it's not even half-baked at best.

Yeah, it's pretty hard to put any of this in context when it's still attached to the significantly larger decisions to keep Nonis and Carlyle around.

I mean, I maybe appreciate that Shanahan didn't want to come in and just start firing people left and right but it seems like this is a worse approach where you have an entire organization with divided loyalties and agendas.

That's what I'm afraid of.  You've got the aged king and his decrepit counsellor on the one hand, and now the young upandcoming prince on the other.  What could possibly go wrong? 

Wait a minute ... I think Shakespeare covered that.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Some Dubas from his TSN interview, via @Hope_Smoke:

Dubas "I think on the ice gritty & character things are important. A guy who is competitive & those things is going to have the puck more"

Dubas "those things will all get lumped together in the analytics"

Dubas "Sheldon and I looked at it as our job was to develop players to make the NHL."

Dubas "our plan was to have our players create things. We looked at zone entries & controlling the puck"

Dubas "I think that whether a hockey player is 15 or 40 they want to make plays"

Dubas "analytics is in a primitive stage. There has been some great work from smart people who are beginning to get hired by NHL teams"

Dubas also said ultimately with the analytics & everything the game is all about finding out how to score more goals than the other team

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That's what I'm afraid of.  You've got the aged king and his decrepit counsellor on the one hand, and now the young upandcoming prince on the other.  What could possibly go wrong? 

Wait a minute ... I think Shakespeare covered that.

I think Mirtle is on point about it:

@mirtle 

Point today is not that Dubas is just some number cruncher. He's not. The point is the Leafs have opened their minds ? and that will help.

 

[rdowdall]

I don't understand this approach.  If you know this is what you were going to do next summer, why wait?  Just to see if Dubas is a flash in the pan?  To make really really sure that you don't think Loiselle and Poulin can do the job that you want them too?

I think it's more of a professional courtesy. Shanny didn't want to come in with no experience running an NHL team and completely clean house right away. I think he really wanted to give guys like Loiselle and Poulin an opportunity to change his mind, but, obviously, he didn't want to lose out on Dubas, either.

Why are those the only paths though? Will Dubas be doing things that directly infringed on what Loiselle and Poulin did? Because if not there's no reason you couldn't keep all of them.

It's kind of beyond weird to make front office changes in the off-season after the free agency period and the draft. Is Shanahan saying that the team did badly in those stretches? Is that the summer long test Loiselle and Poulin failed? It seems to me that it's pretty important to have the right guys in place for those things.

Also, I think most people agreed that the draft and free agency were fairly successful for the Leafs.  It's not like a bunch of glaring errors have been made since the end of the season, at least not visible ones.  I mean, they could be bringing Shanahan a caramel macchiato when he wants a half-caf latte but we wouldn't know that.

 

[pmrules]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

 

[pmrules]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

No idea what this means.

 

[pmrules]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

No idea what this means.

It means we have been down this road of "new blood" and "change" before...and it has gotten us nowhere.

There is absolutely nothing to get excited about here as the core players from the last 3 years are still the core players we are stuck with for the forseeable future. 

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

No idea what this means.

It means we have been down this road of "new blood" and "change" before...and it has gotten us nowhere.

There is absolutely nothing to get excited about here as the core players from the last 3 years are still the core players we are stuck with for the forseeable future.

So why make any changes ever then is what you're saying?

 

[pmrules]

weird timing - why not do this before the draft and before UFA day.

Also - how does this guy make our team better?  Our players are still our players and our coach is still our coach...and newsflash...the players and the coach are still not that good.

Is something not worth doing if it doesn't instantly improve the team?  This is obviously a move done for the future of the franchise.

You mean like JFJ?

or do you mean like Bryan Burke?

No idea what this means.

It means we have been down this road of "new blood" and "change" before...and it has gotten us nowhere.

There is absolutely nothing to get excited about here as the core players from the last 3 years are still the core players we are stuck with for the forseeable future.

So why make any changes ever then is what you're saying?

No...not at all.  I'm all about getting better.  If he gets us better players then the collective defensive garbage we currently have, then i'm aboard...until then...I'm going to hold off on doing my dance of joy.

It's basically a show me what you got in ya...and then I'll make a judgement...because we have been through the new blood of JFJ and the old blood of Burke already.