Leafs @ Hurricanes - Oct. 25th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[rdowdall]

If the Leafs want to shake it up, trading Rielly would be at the top of my list.  No way they should be re-signing him anyhow.

Depends on the money whether you sign him or not.

I'm not sure what is wrong with Rielly, but dude took two strides last game before he realized he didn't even have the puck.  Maybe it's his contract, maybe it's pressure.  At the end of the day though he is not helping this team right now.

 

[azzurri63]

If the Leafs want to shake it up, trading Rielly would be at the top of my list.  No way they should be re-signing him anyhow.

Depends on the money whether you sign him or not.

The way money was handed out to D men over the summer mind you all better than Morgan he's going to get at least 8 million per. In my opinion what he brings to the table, no grit, no shot which we need on the PP and quite frankly not the best defensively I would ship him off. Recoup some picks which we lack ( thanks Kyle) or pick up some young players that can step into the lineup next year. Just don't let him walk.

 

[rdowdall]

I can't watch the game.  How are we doing?

Remember last year when the team really needed a win in the playoffs to move on to the next round and they had three chances to do it?  Like that.

I was really hoping in 2017 when we had Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson, Connor Brown, Hyman and Rielly that we had the makings of a young core that could carry us until 2027.  Kadri, Hyman and Rielly were on good value contracts.

I really want to see the Leafs win a Cup.

Yeah, it seems so long ago.  I mean we as fans had the optimism after drafting Matthews, and we were all dreaming that this team was going to be like the Hawks.  The team had some franchise players to build around, some cornerstone superstars that could be in the discussion for second best player in the league (I mean, there is only one McDavid).  Now this is a confused dysfunctional team that looks like half of them are interested and the other half are scared.  And as fans we just have to put up with embarrassing moment after embarrassing moment while having our hopes dashed game after game and year after year.  All we wanted as fans was a team we could be proud of, and here we are wondering why they are struggling just to win a game.

I agree with your perspective.  My grandparents moved to the Maritimes from Toronto in the 50s and were diehard Leaf fans and my 1 year old grandson even has a Jersey as well as 3 of my 4 kids.  So 5 generations now.

I have been disappointed for the 1st time in 52 years...yes I was born after the last Leaf Cup.  I find it weird you can't say you're discouraged without some judgemental fan saying "Well leave and cheer for another team" especially when they haven't hung in as long as some of us here.

Yeah, I went through the 80's.  The 1990-91 season was a particular low point in my fandom, but I was much younger then.  The Gilmour trade was sort of my first taste of success with the Leafs.  That guy would compete.  The Sundin years were nice.  That team gave an honest effort most nights.  Even if they didn't, Roberts would run over someone, or Tucker would do something crazy and you would at least come away from the game thinking they had given some sort of effort.

I really feel like Matthews and Marner would have been better off missing the playoffs that first year in hindsight.  I think that success came to them to quickly.  Maybe that's the final lesson they need to learn.  Miss the playoffs one year so that they don't think it's just a given every year. 

I don't know.  Things look bad right now.  If they stick to the script, all the big stars will break out of their slumps, and they'll score 4 goals a game for a bit get back into a playoff spot, then they'll make the playoffs, and the stars will go cold again, and they will lose in the first round.

Then we get to hear the reasons why the next year will be different, what the team learned, how they all cared and grew, and then we get to do all this again next year. 

 

[Bullfrog]

I would do the Tavares signing all over again but we need to recognize that the best-value years of his Leafs tenure are just about gone.  He's on the downhill, and while still quite a good player is no longer even remotely a superstar.  A very predictable trajectory, as many UFA signings are.

They really really REALLY missed the boat last year.  A royal road to the conference finals was paved for them and they couldn't even go 1 for 3 against a crummy Habs team.  They'll never have that shortcut again.  Just a shame that JT got hurt right off the hop.

Of course, people start to drop off when past their prime, but I'm not sure Tavares is a good example. For the three seasons he's completed here, he was right on his career average points (in fact, he exceeded it slightly). Given his scoring is as strong as it's ever been, either you're under-rating him now or over-rating the earlier part of his career. Even if he's not as dominant as prior years, the drop-off is barely even significant.

 

[ZBBM]

I would do the Tavares signing all over again but we need to recognize that the best-value years of his Leafs tenure are just about gone.  He's on the downhill, and while still quite a good player is no longer even remotely a superstar.  A very predictable trajectory, as many UFA signings are.

They really really REALLY missed the boat last year.  A royal road to the conference finals was paved for them and they couldn't even go 1 for 3 against a crummy Habs team.  They'll never have that shortcut again.  Just a shame that JT got hurt right off the hop.

Of course, people start to drop off when past their prime, but I'm not sure Tavares is a good example. For the three seasons he's completed here, he was right on his career average points (in fact, he exceeded it slightly). Given his scoring is as strong as it's ever been, either you're under-rating him now or over-rating the earlier part of his career. Even if he's not as dominant as prior years, the drop-off is barely even significant.

Thanks BF, I didn't check the stats.  My uninformed opinion stands corrected.  I just wish he would dominate a game every now and then.  He never seems to.

 

[bustaheims]

Thanks BF, I didn't check the stats.  My uninformed opinion stands corrected.  I just wish he would dominate a game every now and then.  He never seems to.

That's just not really his style. He plays a mostly quiet but relatively consistently productive game. Pucks just aren't going in for him right now - like everyone else on the team. If the roster was finishing at around their usual rates, the team would have scored around 10 more goals this season, and their record would look an awful lot better. They're shooting around 5.5% right now, whereas they've finished in the 10-11% range in each of the last few seasons.

It's frustrating to watch, I get that. The team is still generating significantly more scoring chances than any other team in the league (per naturalstattrick, they have 270 so far, with the next closest team having 192). Unless the whole team suddenly dropped off a cliff, they'll turn things around.

Honestly, right now, I'm much more worried about their defensive play than their lack of finishing. Muzzin, especially, has not played at the level we need him to.

 

[Joe S.]

Not that it makes me feel any better, or maybe it does, I don?t know anymore, but TB lost to Buffalo 5-1. Something is definitely upside down in the league to start this season.

At the same time I really do feel like something is broken with this team. I don?t think it?s a talent or coaching issue. I think they are in their own heads. As much as no player will ever admit it, I think last season is haunting them and it?s showing on the ice.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I didn't really have a problem with the teams 2-1-1 start. Thought they were playing good, should have even picked up the 2nd point against the Rangers but were robbed by a hot goalie which happens. But jeeze these past games have gotta be the worst 3-game stretch under Keefe by a mile. Just embarrassing hockey really. If the Blackhawks game isn't a convincing victory things are gonna get real ugly.

 

[Joe S.]

I didn't really have a problem with the teams 2-1-1 start. Thought they were playing good, should have even picked up the 2nd point against the Rangers but were robbed by a hot goalie which happens. But jeeze these past games have gotta be the worst 3-game stretch under Keefe by a mile. Just embarrassing hockey really. If the Blackhawks game isn't a convincing victory things are gonna get real ugly.

Agreed. I though the first 4 games were fine but I don?t know wtf this is.

I feel that over the years Fleury hasn't played that well against the leafs and hopefully that trend continues. 

https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=marc-andre+fleury+all-time+record+against+every+team

 

[Frank E]

I get the feeling that I might be wrong given no one else is talking about it, but I'm pretty disappointed with Sandin thus far...bad decisions, skating himself into nowhere with the puck...he looks a little lost out there.

I miss Bogo.

 

[Guilt Trip]

I get the feeling that I might be wrong given no one else is talking about it, but I'm pretty disappointed with Sandin thus far...bad decisions, skating himself into nowhere with the puck...he looks a little lost out there.

I miss Bogo.

He's not mistake free but I'm not disappointed with him. I think he's been fine and will be. I hope they put him in Rielly's place on PP1.

 

[Bullfrog]

...
I miss Bogo.

100% agreed. I had zero expectations for him when he signed, but he very quickly won me over. The perfect third pairing defenseman.

I would kill to have Pesce or Slavin.
<legal disclaimer: would not literally kill. that would be bad>

 

[hap_leaf]

Missing Bogosian too - but moreso Hyman. Both gave it their ALL every night.  We could use that right now.

 

[Bullfrog]

While I know it's the fun and easy thing to do, but man, Marner needs to pick it up. I literally don't care how much he's paid, but he's a game-breaker...... or should be.

I don't always agree with LK's view, but I think I do on this one. At some point, your stars have to be stars.

 

[Guilt Trip]

While I know it's the fun and easy thing to do, but man, Marner needs to pick it up. I literally don't care how much he's paid, but he's a game-breaker...... or should be.

I don't always agree with LK's view, but I think I do on this one. At some point, your stars have to be stars.

Yup and they're all in a slump right now. Still generating chances but not cashing in.

 

[hap_leaf]

While I know it's the fun and easy thing to do, but man, Marner needs to pick it up. I literally don't care how much he's paid, but he's a game-breaker...... or should be.

I don't always agree with LK's view, but I think I do on this one. At some point, your stars have to be stars.

Yup and they're all in a slump right now. Still generating chances but not cashing in.

And this all without Mikheyev, the King of No Finish, which is remarkable.

 

[Guilt Trip]

While I know it's the fun and easy thing to do, but man, Marner needs to pick it up. I literally don't care how much he's paid, but he's a game-breaker...... or should be.

I don't always agree with LK's view, but I think I do on this one. At some point, your stars have to be stars.

Yup and they're all in a slump right now. Still generating chances but not cashing in.

And this all without Mikheyev, the King of No Finish, which is remarkable.

And Hyman was worse then him to start his career. Mikheyev outproduced Hyman starting their careers and Hyman didn't have his tendons sliced and Mik never played with Matthews. Mikheyev is exactly the type of player this team needs right now.

 

[rdowdall]

Thanks BF, I didn't check the stats.  My uninformed opinion stands corrected.  I just wish he would dominate a game every now and then.  He never seems to.

That's just not really his style. He plays a mostly quiet but relatively consistently productive game. Pucks just aren't going in for him right now - like everyone else on the team. If the roster was finishing at around their usual rates, the team would have scored around 10 more goals this season, and their record would look an awful lot better. They're shooting around 5.5% right now, whereas they've finished in the 10-11% range in each of the last few seasons.

It's frustrating to watch, I get that. The team is still generating significantly more scoring chances than any other team in the league (per naturalstattrick, they have 270 so far, with the next closest team having 192). Unless the whole team suddenly dropped off a cliff, they'll turn things around.

Honestly, right now, I'm much more worried about their defensive play than their lack of finishing. Muzzin, especially, has not played at the level we need him to.

I think the only thing with the offense that concerns me is that none of the top three lines seem to be consistently going to the net.  They seem to be hanging around on the outside until later in the game where they feel like they have to press.  That to me is the element they lost in Hyman.  There was the Tavares play last night where they were all crashing the net, that sticks out in my mind.  In the background you can see Marner just standing there watching it all.  He makes no attempt to cover and go after the puck after Tavares's shot misses.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Thanks BF, I didn't check the stats.  My uninformed opinion stands corrected.  I just wish he would dominate a game every now and then.  He never seems to.

That's just not really his style. He plays a mostly quiet but relatively consistently productive game. Pucks just aren't going in for him right now - like everyone else on the team. If the roster was finishing at around their usual rates, the team would have scored around 10 more goals this season, and their record would look an awful lot better. They're shooting around 5.5% right now, whereas they've finished in the 10-11% range in each of the last few seasons.

It's frustrating to watch, I get that. The team is still generating significantly more scoring chances than any other team in the league (per naturalstattrick, they have 270 so far, with the next closest team having 192). Unless the whole team suddenly dropped off a cliff, they'll turn things around.

Honestly, right now, I'm much more worried about their defensive play than their lack of finishing. Muzzin, especially, has not played at the level we need him to.

I think the only thing with the offense that concerns me is that none of the top three lines seem to be consistently going to the net.  They seem to be hanging around on the outside until later in the game where they feel like they have to press.  That to me is the element they lost in Hyman.  There was the Tavares play last night where they were all crashing the net, that sticks out in my mind.  In the background you can see Marner just standing there watching it all.  He makes no attempt to cover and go after the puck after Tavares's shot misses.

They were doing it for the first 4 games. i even remember hearing Ferraro saying he likes the way they're not trying to play on the outside anymore.

 

[azzurri63]

I would do the Tavares signing all over again but we need to recognize that the best-value years of his Leafs tenure are just about gone.  He's on the downhill, and while still quite a good player is no longer even remotely a superstar.  A very predictable trajectory, as many UFA signings are.

They really really REALLY missed the boat last year.  A royal road to the conference finals was paved for them and they couldn't even go 1 for 3 against a crummy Habs team.  They'll never have that shortcut again.  Just a shame that JT got hurt right off the hop.

Of course, people start to drop off when past their prime, but I'm not sure Tavares is a good example. For the three seasons he's completed here, he was right on his career average points (in fact, he exceeded it slightly). Given his scoring is as strong as it's ever been, either you're under-rating him now or over-rating the earlier part of his career. Even if he's not as dominant as prior years, the drop-off is barely even significant.

His scoring is as strong as it's ever been. Maybe I'm missing something. I can let this season slide for now as everyones stats are horrid. I expect his stats to drop off as he is getting older but in my opinion seems slower. Goals per game last 4 years including this season. .57, .41, .34 and .14. Points per game last 4 seasons 1.07, .95, .89 and .42. Everything is dropping off. It's not so much the decrease in productivity it's the 11 million we are shelling out for in my opinion a player who simply isn't who he used to be and understandably so but with his contract definitely a concern. He should be doing a lot more. Unfortunately the Leafs are stuck with him.