bustaheims
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princedpw said:
Well, Steckel has scored in 3 straight games . . .
Seriously, though, the 2nd line looks like it's starting to get going. They've played well lately and have contributed in the last few games.
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Well, Steckel has scored in 3 straight games . . .
Seriously, though, the 2nd line looks like it's starting to get going. They've played well lately and have contributed in the last few games.
Future of talented Kadri remains cloudy
All it took is one look at the forward line combinations at Toronto Maple Leafs practice here Wednesday to lurch Nazem Kadri into an unwanted frenzy of speculation about his immediate future with the club.
The Leafs will play the first hockey game against the Rangers in the newly renovated Madison Square Garden on Thursday, but Kadri may not be part of that special moment.
At least, appearances at practice suggested that much for the talented young winger. He lined up with the so-called ?extra? players in practice, and that triggered talk he may be returned to the Toronto Marlies on Thursday.
The Leafs must make some kind of roster move for Thursday?s game, given the return of injured forwards Tim Connolly and Tyler Bozak.
The Leafs already had three too many forwards on board before the injuries. Now, something has to give.
....
Kadri lined up Wednesday with Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill while Bozak ? who played the bulk of his time with Kessel before his injury ? skated on the third line with Matt Lombardi and Frattin.
That left Kadri the odd man out, at least in practice. And it appears the Leafs, if they do decide to send Kadri to the Marlies, will base it on having Kadri play regular minutes, power play and penalty kill, in the AHL rather than sit as a healthy scratch in the NHL.
....
Kadri handled the media wave in New York ? all of it speculating a pending demotion for him ? with class, but he also seemed somewhat resigned to another Marlie assignment.
The designation on the ?extras? line in practice certainly had that affect on him, even though nothing has been decided yet.
Toronto Star
So they practiced with Frattin-Bozak-Lombardi and Connolly on the first line with Kadri playing with Orr & Rosehill. Wilson's practices have often been revealing of the lines to expect in the next game (obviously and logically).
All it took is one look at the forward line combinations at Toronto Maple Leafs practice here Wednesday to lurch Nazem Kadri into an unwanted frenzy of speculation about his immediate future with the club.
The Leafs will play the first hockey game against the Rangers in the newly renovated Madison Square Garden on Thursday, but Kadri may not be part of that special moment.
At least, appearances at practice suggested that much for the talented young winger. He lined up with the so-called ?extra? players in practice, and that triggered talk he may be returned to the Toronto Marlies on Thursday.
The Leafs must make some kind of roster move for Thursday?s game, given the return of injured forwards Tim Connolly and Tyler Bozak.
The Leafs already had three too many forwards on board before the injuries. Now, something has to give.
....
Kadri lined up Wednesday with Colton Orr and Jay Rosehill while Bozak ? who played the bulk of his time with Kessel before his injury ? skated on the third line with Matt Lombardi and Frattin.
That left Kadri the odd man out, at least in practice. And it appears the Leafs, if they do decide to send Kadri to the Marlies, will base it on having Kadri play regular minutes, power play and penalty kill, in the AHL rather than sit as a healthy scratch in the NHL.
....
Kadri handled the media wave in New York ? all of it speculating a pending demotion for him ? with class, but he also seemed somewhat resigned to another Marlie assignment.
The designation on the ?extras? line in practice certainly had that affect on him, even though nothing has been decided yet.
Toronto Star
So they practiced with Frattin-Bozak-Lombardi and Connolly on the first line with Kadri playing with Orr & Rosehill. Wilson's practices have often been revealing of the lines to expect in the next game (obviously and logically).
cw said:
Well to be honest Kadri has to step up if he wants to stick. He's there to score and if he's not then he's likely going to be sent back. He certainly doesn't have Frattin's all around game.
I don't want to start worrying about his potential... but it's starting to bother me that he can't seem to put it together.
bustaheims
Active member
Bender said:
I understand the concern and all, but, I wouldn't be too worried. This is only his 2nd season as a professional and most players drafted outside of the top 3 generally take 2 or 3 pro seasons to establish themselves as full time NHLers. In reality, his window is really just starting to open.
Bender said:
Let's look at what he's had to deal with:
- he's undersized some and lacked strength
- he didn't know how to play two way hockey
- they're inclined to move him to a wing from his preferred or natural center position
- and like everyone else, he has to adjust to playing at NHL speed and dangling and waterbugging doesn't always bear the same fruit offensively at the NHL level.
Now lots of guys have to go through that to make it in the NHL. But it's still quite a list.
There's a number of guys who don't get to develop that in the AHL (ie in Toronto's case, Gustavsson is a good example). In some cases, it costs them their career. To Wilson and Burke's credit, they're developing a two way hockey player here. He's not there yet but he's improving. That sincerely doesn't bother me one bit. It would bother me much more if he's up here turning the puck over and costing them NHL games while dead ending his skill as a one way player - there's a number of those guys in the KHL now.
I really like the circumstances that's making a kid who is really, really hungry to make the NHL, work really, really hard at his two way game to get here. He may not like it now but when he's in his 30s and lost a step, he'll appreciate his career is years longer if he learns the defensive side of the game. See Eric Belanger for example, not big, 33, still employed contributing a decent two way game - and that's closer to a worst case for Kadri if he continues to work hard on his defence.
Kadri was drafted 7th overall and is 11th in NHL Scoring,5th in ppg and 12th in GP for his draft year. 86% of his draft year has yet to play a NHL game. I'm not going to start wringing my hands just yet.
Frank E
Active member
That's all good and fine cw, but I would prefer to just give up on the little sh*t.
Some people are disappointed, but that suggests to me that their expectations were not very reasonable. He came out of junior a dangling one way player...it takes some time to learn the pro game after years of playing the style of game he did. You can't teach the offensive toolbox he's got, but you can teach positional and defensive play.
If he shows zero improvement over the next year or two, then maybe start talking about failing to meet expectations. Right now, he's showing improvement...as long he keeps doing that, I'll continue to be excited about his potential.
Some people are disappointed, but that suggests to me that their expectations were not very reasonable. He came out of junior a dangling one way player...it takes some time to learn the pro game after years of playing the style of game he did. You can't teach the offensive toolbox he's got, but you can teach positional and defensive play.
If he shows zero improvement over the next year or two, then maybe start talking about failing to meet expectations. Right now, he's showing improvement...as long he keeps doing that, I'll continue to be excited about his potential.
Brayden Schenn, as many Leafs fans would know, was drafted 5th overall, two places ahead of Kadri. I like him as a player - more than Kadri.
Here's his NHL career stats:
12GP 0G 2A 2Pts -6.
And to me, 18 yr old Couturier, drafted 8th overall last June, has been more versatile and playing better than Schenn on the same club.
I'm sure Schenn will turn out just fine even though to date, coming from the same draft, he's accomplished a little less in the NHL than Kadri. At the lower levels of hockey, he's arguably accomplished more. Think the Flyers are ready to throw the towel in on him? It's virtually outrageous at this point to even consider that. So why should we have a different yardstick for Kadri?
Here's his NHL career stats:
12GP 0G 2A 2Pts -6.
And to me, 18 yr old Couturier, drafted 8th overall last June, has been more versatile and playing better than Schenn on the same club.
I'm sure Schenn will turn out just fine even though to date, coming from the same draft, he's accomplished a little less in the NHL than Kadri. At the lower levels of hockey, he's arguably accomplished more. Think the Flyers are ready to throw the towel in on him? It's virtually outrageous at this point to even consider that. So why should we have a different yardstick for Kadri?
http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/bob_mckenzie/?id=378538
I saw a tweet from the Florida Panthers that Bracken Kearns will be making his NHL debut tonight and I cannot tell a lie. I said, who the heck is Bracken Kearns?
My first thought was, I wonder if he's any relation to Dennis Kearns. And, as fate, would have it, yes, indeed he is the son of the former NHL defenceman who played 10 seasons and more than 600 regular-season games with the Vancouver Canucks in the 1970s.
But, get, this, Bracken Kearns is making his NHL debut tonight and he's 30 years old.
Patience Leafs fans, patience. ;D
I saw a tweet from the Florida Panthers that Bracken Kearns will be making his NHL debut tonight and I cannot tell a lie. I said, who the heck is Bracken Kearns?
My first thought was, I wonder if he's any relation to Dennis Kearns. And, as fate, would have it, yes, indeed he is the son of the former NHL defenceman who played 10 seasons and more than 600 regular-season games with the Vancouver Canucks in the 1970s.
But, get, this, Bracken Kearns is making his NHL debut tonight and he's 30 years old.
Patience Leafs fans, patience. ;D
At what point do the Leafs worry about MacArthur on the second line, and try Kadri there? I realize that the second line hasn't exactly been lighting it up, and Grabovski did get off to a bit of a slow start last year, but there is a chance that putting someone different on that line may increase their scoring.
I agree that MacArthur should also be included in the group battling to stay in the lineup. What a shocking problem to have considering just a few years ago we had "one top 6 forward" who is not even on the team anymore. Not that I think our top 6 is perfect but it has massively improved.Bullfrog said:
From everything I have seen, right now, MacCarthur is a much, much better player than Kadri. MacCarthur can hold the puck and cycle in the offensive zone. He can maintain possession. And that helps generate a lot more chances for his line than Kadri's once-per-game stick-handling tricks.
Kadri's talent give him lots of potential but he still needs to get stronger and learn how to use his body to fend off defenders and maintain puck possession.
Kadri's talent give him lots of potential but he still needs to get stronger and learn how to use his body to fend off defenders and maintain puck possession.
I'm not convinced Connolly on the first line is the best idea. Bozak's defensively responsible play allows Lupul and Kessel to play a wide open game. I'm afraid that with Connolly on the line they may get caught up more in their own end and give up a lot more against.
I'm impressed with Bozak this year for altering his game from trying to be an offensive guy to a defensive guy. I think he has found his role and style of game he needs to play to be successful. The turn around in +/- for the first line has been amazing.
I'm impressed with Bozak this year for altering his game from trying to be an offensive guy to a defensive guy. I think he has found his role and style of game he needs to play to be successful. The turn around in +/- for the first line has been amazing.
WhatIfGodWasALeaf
Active member
I mean your theory about having a defensive guy with those two is sound, but Connolly was brought in with the reputation of having turned into a pretty accomplished penalty killer, so one would assume he is responsible defensively. Couple this with the fact he is clearly a much more accomplished passer than Bozak at this stage, I think this means you have to give him a chance in the role he was essentially brought in to play.cabber24 said:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/icechips/?hubname=nhl-maple_leafs
Forwards:
Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Frattin
Brown - Steckel - Dupuis
Rosehill - Kadri - Orr
Defence:
Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Komisarek
Franson
Goaltenders:
Reimer
Gustavsson
There was some indefinite hedging as to whether Reimer would play. From the transaction below of a couple of days ago, he'll definitely dress.
http://theahl.com/stats/transactions.php?f_season_id=37&f_team_id=335
10/26/2011 Mark Owuya (G) Toronto DEL Reassigned by Toronto (NHL) to Reading (ECHL)
10/25/2011 Ben Scrivens (G) Toronto ADD Returned on loan from Toronto (NHL)
MacArthur has only played four games (a fifth he was injured early on). Given his suspension and injury, I'm in no rush to wipe out any chance that Grabbo's line can recover it's chemistry this early. In the first few games, they were off a little - timing & passes. As the games progressed, I think they've been getting better chances.
If I was going to try someone in place of MacArthur, I'd try Frattin again before Kadri. He's snake bit but he'll break out soon enough.
As I think I mentioned above, I probably would have left Bozak with Kessel & Lupul for a couple of games while Connolly gets up to speed on playing. Although Bozak is making a better effort defensively this year, I don't think Connolly gives much away there to Bozak. A difference between to two is faceoffs: Bozak has struggled with his wrist this year but Connolly is not as good in that department. Where I hope Connolly can contribute better than Bozak is on the PP.
Forwards:
Lupul - Connolly - Kessel
MacArthur - Grabovski - Kulemin
Lombardi - Bozak - Frattin
Brown - Steckel - Dupuis
Rosehill - Kadri - Orr
Defence:
Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Schenn
Liles - Komisarek
Franson
Goaltenders:
Reimer
Gustavsson
There was some indefinite hedging as to whether Reimer would play. From the transaction below of a couple of days ago, he'll definitely dress.
http://theahl.com/stats/transactions.php?f_season_id=37&f_team_id=335
10/26/2011 Mark Owuya (G) Toronto DEL Reassigned by Toronto (NHL) to Reading (ECHL)
10/25/2011 Ben Scrivens (G) Toronto ADD Returned on loan from Toronto (NHL)
MacArthur has only played four games (a fifth he was injured early on). Given his suspension and injury, I'm in no rush to wipe out any chance that Grabbo's line can recover it's chemistry this early. In the first few games, they were off a little - timing & passes. As the games progressed, I think they've been getting better chances.
If I was going to try someone in place of MacArthur, I'd try Frattin again before Kadri. He's snake bit but he'll break out soon enough.
As I think I mentioned above, I probably would have left Bozak with Kessel & Lupul for a couple of games while Connolly gets up to speed on playing. Although Bozak is making a better effort defensively this year, I don't think Connolly gives much away there to Bozak. A difference between to two is faceoffs: Bozak has struggled with his wrist this year but Connolly is not as good in that department. Where I hope Connolly can contribute better than Bozak is on the PP.
GhostofPotvin29
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