Line-up changes

[wc17]

I think we all saw the Frattin thing coming. Hopefully he goes down and lights it up!

I like getting Crabb up to the Leafs. You know hes going to work his ass off and is very confident right now so maybe he'll pot a few goals while we wait for Army to recover...

Hopefully this lights a fire under Naz as well...

 

[pnjunction]

Sweet, I've seen some Crabb highlights and kept an eye on his numbers and he is looking good.

Frattin will obviously get better but it was becoming clear that he just isn't quite ready yet to put up numbers at the NHL level.  In the AHL he'll get much more ice time to develop his pro game and also hopefully develop some chemistry with his potential future Leaf-mates like Colborne and Kadri.

In the meantime Crabb has certainly earned a shot at bringing some much-needed scoring to our 3rd line.

 

[Kin]

I don't entirely understand it. I thought popular perception was that Frattin was playing pretty well but was a little snake-bit in terms of actual production.

Admittedly, it's just a matter of being a place holder until Armstrong is healthy but I thought it was good to be giving some of the prospects some NHL time.

 

[L K]

I don't entirely understand it. I thought popular perception was that Frattin was playing pretty well but was a little snake-bit in terms of actual production.

But hey Wilson, tell me more about how you want to give spots on the basis of guys earning it over years. 
Admittedly, it's just a matter of being a place holder until Armstrong is healthy but I thought it was good to be giving some of the prospects some NHL time.

It'd be cool if they used that move for Kadri or Colborne instead of Joey Crabb.  We have already seen what Crabb is capable of at the NHL level, and it isn't much.  What part of 7 goals in 77 games entails "earning it".

 

[bustaheims]

I don't entirely understand it. I thought popular perception was that Frattin was playing pretty well but was a little snake-bit in terms of actual production.

I felt that Frattin was pretty invisible for the past few of games - maybe not to the point of being a detriment to the team, but, I'm not sure he was contributing much either. Looks like Wilson felt the same way, as his ice time dropped from 13+ minutes per game to less than 10 over the last couple outings. Some time in the AHL is probably the best course of action for him - he should be getting big minutes there and be used in a more offensive role.

Crabb may not be the popular choice to replace him, but, he is third in the AHL in scoring and has enough NHL experience that he's earned the opportunity to be the 1st call up - and is probably the best option - to play 3rd/4th line minutes with the Leafs for a couple weeks.

 

[pnjunction]

What part of 7 goals in 77 games entails "earning it".

15 points in 9 AHL games is what is earning it.  3rd in AHL behind Colborne and some other guy at 16 points.  I'm guessing we'd be bringing Colborne up if we needed a center.

 

[Kin]

I felt that Frattin was pretty invisible for the past few of games - maybe not to the point of being a detriment to the team, but, I'm not sure he was contributing much either. Looks like Wilson felt the same way, as his ice time dropped from 13+ minutes per game to less than 10 over the last couple outings.

Even then, after a couple of off games? Like I said, I think popular perception was that he was playing pretty well.

Some time in the AHL is probably the best course of action for him - he should be getting big minutes there and be used in a more offensive role.

I don't know, I think that for guys like Frattin and Kadri a third line role in the NHL is probably a pretty good place for them. Both in terms of learning to expand their responsibilities but also because there's a certain reality surrounding the team right now. There are good wingers on the team and the likelihood of either guy stepping into a top 6 role strikes me as being pretty remote even a year or two down the road.

Like I said, it's a placeholder position but I really wonder if Joey Crabb should be taking up a roster spot right now.

 

[L K]

What part of 7 goals in 77 games entails "earning it".

15 points in 9 AHL games is what is earning it.  3rd in AHL behind Colborne and some other guy at 16 points.  I'm guessing we'd be bringing Colborne up if we needed a center.

The AHL is the land of marginal NHL players who put up great offensive stats despite very limited NHL offensive capabilities. 
Keith Aucoin, Denis Hamel, Joey Crabb, Corey Locke, Jason Krog, Alexander Giroux.  These are all players who can't score at the NHL level who have nice AHL statistics.  It's great that he's putting up points, but if the goal is winning, Crabb doesn't help the team do that.

 

[Kin]

15 points in 9 AHL games is what is earning it.  3rd in AHL behind Colborne and some other guy at 16 points.  I'm guessing we'd be bringing Colborne up if we needed a center.

I'm still inclined to look at it from the perspective of a NHL fan though. I've got a pretty good grasp of what Joey Crabb can do in the NHL and I don't know that the team gains a ton with him vs. bumping Mike Brown up the the third line and dressing one of the enforcers for 5-6 minutes a night. I understand using the spot to give someone who needs it NHL experience but otherwise it strikes me as a pretty unnecessary move.

 

[bustaheims]

Even then, after a couple of off games? Like I said, I think popular perception was that he was playing pretty well.

Well, I guess I disagree with popular perception, because, outside of the goaltender interference penalty against the Rangers, I really haven't noticed much from him in the past couple weeks.

I don't know, I think that for guys like Frattin and Kadri a third line role in the NHL is probably a pretty good place for them. Both in terms of learning to expand their responsibilities but also because there's a certain reality surrounding the team right now. There are good wingers on the team and the likelihood of either guy stepping into a top 6 role strikes me as being pretty remote even a year or two down the road.

That's true to an extent, but, not if it means getting less than 10 minutes of ice time a night. Frattin's role had been essentially reduced to being a 4th liner, and, if that was to be the case going forward, he and Kadri are better off in the AHL. I have to imagine that was part of what went into the decision making process here.

Like I said, it's a placeholder position but I really wonder if Joey Crabb should be taking up a roster spot right now.

While I understand that, I'm not sure who in the system would be better for what is essentially the role of a 3rd/4th line tweener getting ~10 minutes a night.

 

[TML fan]

I felt that Frattin was pretty invisible for the past few of games - maybe not to the point of being a detriment to the team, but, I'm not sure he was contributing much either. Looks like Wilson felt the same way, as his ice time dropped from 13+ minutes per game to less than 10 over the last couple outings.

Even then, after a couple of off games? Like I said, I think popular perception was that he was playing pretty well.

Some time in the AHL is probably the best course of action for him - he should be getting big minutes there and be used in a more offensive role.

I don't know, I think that for guys like Frattin and Kadri a third line role in the NHL is probably a pretty good place for them. Both in terms of learning to expand their responsibilities but also because there's a certain reality surrounding the team right now. There are good wingers on the team and the likelihood of either guy stepping into a top 6 role strikes me as being pretty remote even a year or two down the road.

Like I said, it's a placeholder position but I really wonder if Joey Crabb should be taking up a roster spot right now.

I think Wilson explained it pretty well. Frattin is not scoring. The Leafs aren't looking for him to be a 3rd line grinder. I think it's in their best interests to send him down and find out if he can even score at the AHL level. I think Frattin has a future in the NHL but in what role? That's what sending him down will hopefully determine.

I don't think there is a better choice down there than Joey Crabb at the moment. I don't think it's in Colborne's best interests to take him out of a pretty dominating 1st line centre role and throw him on the wing on the 3rd line. D'Amigo is playing alright but I don't know if it's enough to warrant a call up. Kadri is -2 in 2 games and Caputi is pretty much a long shot project at this point.

 

[Tigger]

It makes a tiny bit of sense to me in that Crabb saw time on both the PP and PK last year while chipping in some points and hitting a fair bit. Nothing to really write home about but that's sort of been the case with Frattin too and he's been better than Kadri.

It's probably a combination of Frattin's needs and Armstrong's absence that's causing this.

Edit to add: The Leafs are also saving a bit against the cap, ~500k

 

[Tigger]

Does Crabb have to clear waivers? Seems like he should.

 

[Bender]

jonasTSN1050Jonas Siegel
Crabb is tied for third in AHL scoring. Frattin had one assist in eleven games.

Called it

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Does Crabb have to clear waivers? Seems like he should.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#Exemptions_from_regular_waivers_only

 

[Bender]

I felt that Frattin was pretty invisible for the past few of games - maybe not to the point of being a detriment to the team, but, I'm not sure he was contributing much either. Looks like Wilson felt the same way, as his ice time dropped from 13+ minutes per game to less than 10 over the last couple outings.

Even then, after a couple of off games? Like I said, I think popular perception was that he was playing pretty well.

Some time in the AHL is probably the best course of action for him - he should be getting big minutes there and be used in a more offensive role.

I don't know, I think that for guys like Frattin and Kadri a third line role in the NHL is probably a pretty good place for them. Both in terms of learning to expand their responsibilities but also because there's a certain reality surrounding the team right now. There are good wingers on the team and the likelihood of either guy stepping into a top 6 role strikes me as being pretty remote even a year or two down the road.

Like I said, it's a placeholder position but I really wonder if Joey Crabb should be taking up a roster spot right now.

I think Wilson explained it pretty well. Frattin is not scoring. The Leafs aren't looking for him to be a 3rd line grinder. I think it's in their best interests to send him down and find out if he can even score at the AHL level. I think Frattin has a future in the NHL but in what role? That's what sending him down will hopefully determine.

I don't think there is a better choice down there than Joey Crabb at the moment. I don't think it's in Colborne's best interests to take him out of a pretty dominating 1st line centre role and throw him on the wing on the 3rd line. D'Amigo is playing alright but I don't know if it's enough to warrant a call up. Kadri is -2 in 2 games and Caputi is pretty much a long shot project at this point.

I feel like it's a D'Amigo situation, so it's not like sending Frattin down because he's not scoring isn't without precedent. He skipped the AHL entirely so I doubt some time down for seasoning could hurt.

 

[Tigger]

Does Crabb have to clear waivers? Seems like he should.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap#Exemptions_from_regular_waivers_only

I must be missing something there, I don't see an exemption.

 

[Frank E]

Put me in the "don't agree with this move" camp.

He's been playing a third line role, been hitting, being defensively responsible, and has been a little dangerous at times. 

The fact that Joey Crabb is being recalled to replace him...well, that's just absurd.  Frattin has way more upside, right now, than Joey Crabb, even with his little AHL scoring streak going on. 

 

[TML fan]

I'm not seeing Frattin's upside right now. Nor am I seeing the downside of this move. I think Crabb is capable of throwing a few hits and pitching in a point every 11 games or so.

 

[Kin]

That's true to an extent, but, not if it means getting less than 10 minutes of ice time a night. Frattin's role had been essentially reduced to being a 4th liner, and, if that was to be the case going forward, he and Kadri are better off in the AHL. I have to imagine that was part of what went into the decision making process here.

That's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy though, isn't it? You're right. If Wilson is deciding to not play those guys then, yeah, they may be better off getting to play but being as it's Wilson's judgment being questioned here I don't think Wilson's judgment can be used as supporting evidence.

While I understand that, I'm not sure who in the system would be better for what is essentially the role of a 3rd/4th line tweener getting ~10 minutes a night.

But what I was saying is that a 3/4th line tweener getting 10 minutes a night is a position of such minimal value that you could probably fill it internally without there being a big difference between a bigger role for Brown/Rosehill and Crabb/Brown.

I understand Frattin/Kadri having the spot with an eye to the longterm implications and I don't see the short-term gain even if the popular thinking is that Frattin was stinking up the joint.