Line-up changes

[Redleaf]

I don't think eberle is that good honestly.  Not worth schenn alone never mind + a forward.

I disagree. I think he's getting overshadowed by the likes of Hopkins and Hall right now. 43 pts in his first NHL season is pretty good. Kessel got 29 pts in his 1st season.

Petr Prucha had similar numbers.

Not to take anything away from Eberle - maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but there are better players out there. If we're going to go for a first line player in my mind it isn't Jordan Eberle.

There's always better players 'out there'. Its finding a trading partner who needs to upgrade a certain position or dump salary that makes these types of trades more likely to happen. I think Eberle is close to what we have in Connolly, but without the injury history, and minus 9 years in age. His ceiling is higher than Connolly's as well.

 

[Bender]

Not to take anything away from Eberle - maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but there are better players out there. If we're going to go for a first line player in my mind it isn't Jordan Eberle.

Personally, I think it's that you haven't watched him that close or enough. He is an exceptional talent from what I've seen. He was awesome during the WJC, but he scored some pretty goals last season and has some really good moves. I also think his hockey sense is above average for sure, he's going to be a gamer from where I'm watching. I could be wrong, but he's really, really good.

Not to take away anything from the junior level, but even Ramzi Abid was a prolific scorer in the late 90s during his draft year. I've seen enough point getters in the WJC to take it with a grain of salt.

Granted, you could tell Eberle is a good player. He was clutch during the WJC and had a pretty good hockey IQ. But I wouldn't call him a Toews even though Eberle's WJC numbers are far better.

 

[maplesyrup]

I don't see Eberle being dealt. He's too big of a part of Edmonton's future.

 

[Bender]

I don't think eberle is that good honestly.  Not worth schenn alone never mind + a forward.

I disagree. I think he's getting overshadowed by the likes of Hopkins and Hall right now. 43 pts in his first NHL season is pretty good. Kessel got 29 pts in his 1st season.

Petr Prucha had similar numbers.

Not to take anything away from Eberle - maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but there are better players out there. If we're going to go for a first line player in my mind it isn't Jordan Eberle.

There's always better players 'out there'. Its finding a trading partner who needs to upgrade a certain position or dump salary that makes these types of trades more likely to happen. I think Eberle is close to what we have in Connolly, but without the injury history, and minus 9 years in age. His ceiling is higher than Connolly's as well.

I don't think the Connolly comparison is necessary. He doesn't factor into the Leafs' long term plans anyway.

I understand we're looking for a trading partner that fits, and I think Edmonton may fit. But if you're proposing we trade Schenn then I think we can aim higher personally. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, and I don't know who's on the block (as if Eberle is anyway!) but I just think we could either get a better player or not give up Schenn.

Regardless, the likelihood is both players are next to untouchable right now.

 

[Redleaf]

I don't think eberle is that good honestly.  Not worth schenn alone never mind + a forward.

I disagree. I think he's getting overshadowed by the likes of Hopkins and Hall right now. 43 pts in his first NHL season is pretty good. Kessel got 29 pts in his 1st season.

Petr Prucha had similar numbers.

Not to take anything away from Eberle - maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but there are better players out there. If we're going to go for a first line player in my mind it isn't Jordan Eberle.

There's always better players 'out there'. Its finding a trading partner who needs to upgrade a certain position or dump salary that makes these types of trades more likely to happen. I think Eberle is close to what we have in Connolly, but without the injury history, and minus 9 years in age. His ceiling is higher than Connolly's as well.

I don't think the Connolly comparison is necessary. He doesn't factor into the Leafs' long term plans anyway.

I understand we're looking for a trading partner that fits, and I think Edmonton may fit. But if you're proposing we trade Schenn then I think we can aim higher personally. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, and I don't know who's on the block (as if Eberle is anyway!) but I just think we could either get a better player or not give up Schenn.

Regardless, the likelihood is both players are next to untouchable right now.

I didnt propose trading Schenn. I was just speculating as to what we could possibly have in trade to make that sort of deal happen. If Connolly is just a stop gap, then Burke is still working the phones to make a deal for a youthful first line centre. At least that's the perception out there. A 2 or 3 for one is what I heard Burke is looking to do.

 

[Bender]

I don't think eberle is that good honestly.  Not worth schenn alone never mind + a forward.

I disagree. I think he's getting overshadowed by the likes of Hopkins and Hall right now. 43 pts in his first NHL season is pretty good. Kessel got 29 pts in his 1st season.

Petr Prucha had similar numbers.

Not to take anything away from Eberle - maybe I haven't seen him play enough, but there are better players out there. If we're going to go for a first line player in my mind it isn't Jordan Eberle.

There's always better players 'out there'. Its finding a trading partner who needs to upgrade a certain position or dump salary that makes these types of trades more likely to happen. I think Eberle is close to what we have in Connolly, but without the injury history, and minus 9 years in age. His ceiling is higher than Connolly's as well.

I don't think the Connolly comparison is necessary. He doesn't factor into the Leafs' long term plans anyway.

I understand we're looking for a trading partner that fits, and I think Edmonton may fit. But if you're proposing we trade Schenn then I think we can aim higher personally. I don't have the time to do the research at the moment, and I don't know who's on the block (as if Eberle is anyway!) but I just think we could either get a better player or not give up Schenn.

Regardless, the likelihood is both players are next to untouchable right now.

I didnt propose trading Schenn. I was just speculating as to what we could possibly have in trade to make that sort of deal happen. If Connolly is just a stop gap, then Burke is still working the phones to make a deal for a youthful first line centre. At least that's the perception out there. A 2 or 3 for one is what I heard Burke is looking to do.

I don't disagree that is likely what he is doing. But I'm also skeptical about a deal such as this: To what degree is it a lateral move? It depends on who's packaged. I'm simply skeptical is all. I feel if we make a deal like this it'll be one step forward to steps back so to speak.

 

[Redleaf]

[/quote]

I don't disagree that is likely what he is doing. But I'm also skeptical about a deal such as this: To what degree is it a lateral move? It depends on who's packaged. I'm simply skeptical is all. I feel if we make a deal like this it'll be one step forward to steps back so to speak.
[/quote]

Yeah. It would depend on the players traded in such a deal. Thats what I'm trying to get a feel for as far us whom we'd be willing to part with. I'm not sure it would be too lateral a move if we were able to package a few defencemen in such a trade, as we have an abundance of them right now. 1st line centers are very hard to acquire, so time will tell if Burke can actually pull something like this off.

 

[pnjunction]

I don't think the Connolly comparison is necessary. He doesn't factor into the Leafs' long term plans anyway.

To put some perspective on 'long term', we only have Kessel signed for one year longer Connolly.

 

[cw]

I personally wouldn't give him even as charitable response as that. Cody just flunked the attitude test, and he did it in public.  Not good.

I don't think it's as simple as that. I think there's something to be said for a guy who's in Franson's position being upset with how things are playing out. It's pretty natural for NHL players to want to play. If Franson were Brett Lebda and lucky to have a job, sure, but that's not the case here.

It's probably not the most politic decision to air things in public but I can't fault him for the attitude.

Especially when it's not like he's this highly-regarded NHL mainstay. He's still a kid, albeit apparently a very talented one, who is still looking to find his niche, and in the last year of his contract. Of course he's going to be upset about sitting around in his suit and tie when he should, arguably, be firmly in the top four or five d-men on the team.

He might "think" he should be in the top four or five but he has to prove that. He was a 6/7 dman in Nashville. 15 mins per game in usually guarded situations with no PK. Yes he was behind Suter & Webber but Kevin Klein, Jonathon Blum, Francis Bouillon  (IR) & Shane O'Brien are not exactly common household names or known as All Stars.

I hope like heck he can help because I think the Leafs D is significantly overrated by potential. All these guys have potential but few of them, aside from maybe Liles, have really proven it consistently in a body of work over the last few seasons. Most of them have had good moments but they've also had some shaky ones that we've semi excused with the hope they'll bounce back or improve. I don't mean that critically - I like a bunch of them, the glass is half full for me and I believe in some of their potential.  But potential really means squat in this league until it's proven with consistency over a significant period of time.

That's not just a challenge for Franson. It's a challenge the entire bunch face with the very real possibility some of them won't meet it.

Maybe Franson started to believe the press clippings that in my opinion, over-hyped where he was right now.

 

[Tigger]

There's no doubt in my mind that Franson should be the right side dman on the third pairing. That said he should also keep his trap shut. The Leafs are heading into game 3 of the season and saying things like that to the media is, imho, dead wrong.

He's young and needs to learn the Vatican ropes and while one can understand some frustration there's really no call for it now.

Hopefully Burke has a nice little problem on his hands that he can convert into something better for the team.

 

[Tigger]

I don't think the Connolly comparison is necessary. He doesn't factor into the Leafs' long term plans anyway.

To put some perspective on 'long term', we only have Kessel signed for one year longer Connolly.

I'd much rather have the 25 year old under contract to negotiate with, fwiw.

Looking at Kessels page at capgeek and it has some numbers under the signing bonus category that I don't quite understand, a total of 8 mil in signing bonuses over 3 years that doesn't apply to the total cost of the contract... I must be getting old or contracted Ulmer math, anyone?

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Looking at Kessels page at capgeek and it has some numbers under the signing bonus category that I don't quite understand, a total of 8 mil in signing bonuses over 3 years that doesn't apply to the total cost of the contract... I must be getting old or contracted Ulmer math, anyone?

Looks like a rare mistake by Capgeek. Either the signing bonus is a mistake, or it wasn't deducted from his NHL salary on the table.

edit: I thought they usually deduct the signing bonus from the NHL salary, but looking at other players contracts it appears as though they don't. As busta says below me, it's a pretty confusing thing to do.

 

[bustaheims]

Looking at Kessels page at capgeek and it has some numbers under the signing bonus category that I don't quite understand, a total of 8 mil in signing bonuses over 3 years that doesn't apply to the total cost of the contract... I must be getting old or contracted Ulmer math, anyone?

It's more that capgeek has set things up in a confusing way there - they include signing bonuses in the salary they list and list it separately. They make it needlessly confusing.

 

[hockeyfan1]

there is of course no problem with a guy wanting to play..but he should not be airing this in the press...

I don't really have a problem with it, other than the talk of agents and being patient. He was obviously approached and asked to comment on the situation specifically and he gave an honest answer. He probably still has a thing or two to learn about dealing with the Toronto media now that he's not doing email interviews with the part-time advice columnist/hockey beat writer at the Nashville Tumbleweed.

Franson seemed upset more at the way he found out....

"They didn't say anything to me," Franson said. "The way I found out was I watched one of Ron Wilson's interviews on the computer and he was asked a question about Fratts (Matt Frattin) and he thought they were asking about me. He said I was the seventh guy and I was like, 'Really?' I didn't sleep very much that night, to say the least.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/10/12/brophy_leafs_franson/

 

[Hockey_gal]

there is of course no problem with a guy wanting to play..but he should not be airing this in the press...

I don't really have a problem with it, other than the talk of agents and being patient. He was obviously approached and asked to comment on the situation specifically and he gave an honest answer. He probably still has a thing or two to learn about dealing with the Toronto media now that he's not doing email interviews with the part-time advice columnist/hockey beat writer at the Nashville Tumbleweed.

Franson seemed upset more at the way he found out....

"They didn't say anything to me," Franson said. "The way I found out was I watched one of Ron Wilson's interviews on the computer and he was asked a question about Fratts (Matt Frattin) and he thought they were asking about me. He said I was the seventh guy and I was like, 'Really?' I didn't sleep very much that night, to say the least.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/10/12/brophy_leafs_franson/

Wow I'm surprised maybe he should stop watching TSN or Sportsnet.

 

[pnjunction]

Wow I'm surprised maybe he should stop watching TSN or Sportsnet.

He could have watched the interview footage on the Leafs own website.  Hard to blame him for being a bit miffed that RW told the media first.  Notice Wilson didn't make that mistake again, he responded with a sharp "Yes, I do" when someone asked if he knew who would be out on Saturday.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Wow I'm surprised maybe he should stop watching TSN or Sportsnet.

He could have watched the interview footage on the Leafs own website.  Hard to blame him for being a bit miffed that RW told the media first.  Notice Wilson didn't make that mistake again, he responded with a sharp "Yes, I do" when someone asked if he knew who would be out on Saturday.

It's not even like Wilson's comments were that bad though:

"Right now [Franson] is our seventh defenceman, but I wouldn't hesitate to play him in any situation," he said. "That's just the way it is right now."

I don't see a lot to get as angry as Franson is making it seem like he was.  He has to understand the situation.

 

[Hockey_gal]

Wow I'm surprised maybe he should stop watching TSN or Sportsnet.

He could have watched the interview footage on the Leafs own website.  Hard to blame him for being a bit miffed that RW told the media first.  Notice Wilson didn't make that mistake again, he responded with a sharp "Yes, I do" when someone asked if he knew who would be out on Saturday.

It's not even like Wilson's comments were that bad though:

"Right now [Franson] is our seventh defenceman, but I wouldn't hesitate to play him in any situation," he said. "That's just the way it is right now."

I don't see a lot to get as angry as Franson is making it seem like he was.  He has to understand the situation.

I agree Potvin...Leafs have depth at D. if he wants to stick in lineup he better play well Saturday.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

No wonder Nashville traded Franson.  Nothing worse than a cry baby.  It's only two games into the season. Seriously dude, STFU.

 

[Kin]

Leafs Nation: unconditionally supportive of our players*


*Until, of course, they do a single thing we don't like.