Maple Leafs are better, but are they a playoff team?

[maplesyrup]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

I hear you but don't you think it would be smarter to be a "seller" at this point? I mean, I don't want to make a "drastic" move, squeak into the playoffs, and get killed in the 1st round. If we can get a player/players who are going to be part of the long-term core, sure... but other then that, I'm not interested in rentals and such.

 

[rdowdall]

We are talking about the team that 3 games ago just came off a 4-game win streak, right?

That team? That's the one we are talking about?

You know that 4 - 3 = 1?  And the Leafs are now 3 points out of a playoff spot, with 0 games at hand, so at the bare minimum, they need to have 2 more wins than the seventh and eighth placed teams in the eastern conference?  You look at those 8 teams.  Tell me who is going to fall off?  Sure you could say Florida, but they have missed the playoffs for 9 straight years, so if you asked me who was more "due", I'd say them.  Also if you look at those 8 teams, all of them way more wins than loses in their last ten.

EDIT:  With the exception of Florida.

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

I agree that it's drastic, but I think that they don't have the options open to them that they need in order to improve the current team.  How many years have we the fans been saying "If they could get this guy, then, then we would make the playoffs" (I mean in the sense that we always seem to be a little short) and every year, they can't seem to get "that guy".

 

[Optimus Reimer]

The Leafs do not need to be thinking rebuild or trading top forwards.  I am not even sure why that stuff is being mentioned.  All the Leafs need to do is some minor tweaking.  When Liles returns, the Leafs have the capacity to trade a d-man, and there a couple of teams out there desperate for d-men, so I could see a trade like that happening.  In return, the Leafs should try to get a power forward type.  Someone who can cut down the middle of the ice.

More importantly though - the Leafs really need to reduce the number of turnovers.  Maybe it has to do with the age of the roster, but the team will get massacred in the playoffs, or will not even make the playoffs unless the turnovers are lowered.

 

[bustaheims]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

Remember, it was right about this time last year when people were starting to complain about the Leafs being on pace to be worse than 09-10 and how the good stretch on the West coast was a mirage, and the Leafs limped into the All Star break; and it was all doom and gloom all the time.

And, then, they went 18-9-6 to close out the season. Good times.

 

[rdowdall]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

Remember, it was right about this time last year when people were starting to complain about the Leafs being on pace to be worse than 09-10 and how the good stretch on the West coast was a mirage, and the Leafs limped into the All Star break; and it was all doom and gloom all the time.

And, then, they went 18-9-6 to close out the season. Good times.

It's easier for me to vent now as opposed to the end of the season.

 

[Bender]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm nutman but this isn't looking like our year. I do believe it's a better/deeper squad than last year but still - just not good enough.

So you're saying Ottawa has more talent on the roster than the Leafs?  Cause they seem to be good enough this year for the playoffs.  At some point it's not the roster and it might be something else.

I really can't speak to how/why Ottawa is much better then us. I just now we don't stand a very good chance of getting in... There is still much work to be done here.

I have 3 reasons why Ottawa is better than the Leafs so far this year:

1) Paul MacLean is a better coach than Ron Wilson
2) Burke won't fire Wilson
3) see points 1 and 2

You kinda missed Craig Anderson. We don't have the same kind of goaltending Anderson is giving the Sens. Talk about coaching all you want, the Sens were hanging on by a thread against the Leafs and won because Anderson didn't let in any soft goals.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm nutman but this isn't looking like our year. I do believe it's a better/deeper squad than last year but still - just not good enough.

So you're saying Ottawa has more talent on the roster than the Leafs?  Cause they seem to be good enough this year for the playoffs.  At some point it's not the roster and it might be something else.

I really can't speak to how/why Ottawa is much better then us. I just now we don't stand a very good chance of getting in... There is still much work to be done here.

I have 3 reasons why Ottawa is better than the Leafs so far this year:

1) Paul MacLean is a better coach than Ron Wilson
2) Burke won't fire Wilson
3) see points 1 and 2

We don't have the same kind of goaltending Anderson is giving the Sens.

It's always something with this team.

 

[Bender]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm nutman but this isn't looking like our year. I do believe it's a better/deeper squad than last year but still - just not good enough.

So you're saying Ottawa has more talent on the roster than the Leafs?  Cause they seem to be good enough this year for the playoffs.  At some point it's not the roster and it might be something else.

I really can't speak to how/why Ottawa is much better then us. I just now we don't stand a very good chance of getting in... There is still much work to be done here.

I have 3 reasons why Ottawa is better than the Leafs so far this year:

1) Paul MacLean is a better coach than Ron Wilson
2) Burke won't fire Wilson
3) see points 1 and 2

We don't have the same kind of goaltending Anderson is giving the Sens.

It's always something with this team.

Actually since the lockout that's pretty much been one of the only constants: Underachieving goaltenders. We'd be in a much different position with a Rinne/Lindback combo.

 

[Zee]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm nutman but this isn't looking like our year. I do believe it's a better/deeper squad than last year but still - just not good enough.

So you're saying Ottawa has more talent on the roster than the Leafs?  Cause they seem to be good enough this year for the playoffs.  At some point it's not the roster and it might be something else.

I really can't speak to how/why Ottawa is much better then us. I just now we don't stand a very good chance of getting in... There is still much work to be done here.

I have 3 reasons why Ottawa is better than the Leafs so far this year:

1) Paul MacLean is a better coach than Ron Wilson
2) Burke won't fire Wilson
3) see points 1 and 2

You kinda missed Craig Anderson. We don't have the same kind of goaltending Anderson is giving the Sens. Talk about coaching all you want, the Sens were hanging on by a thread against the Leafs and won because Anderson didn't let in any soft goals.

Yeah that's one game. Sens have beaten the Leafs 3 out of 4, I guess it's always Anderson.

 

[Corn Flake]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

Remember, it was right about this time last year when people were starting to complain about the Leafs being on pace to be worse than 09-10 and how the good stretch on the West coast was a mirage, and the Leafs limped into the All Star break; and it was all doom and gloom all the time.

And, then, they went 18-9-6 to close out the season. Good times.

I sure do remember! Was hoping everyone (generalizing) would recall that as well and not get too pessimistic... at least wait a little bit longer.

 

[Kin]

Remember, it was right about this time last year when people were starting to complain about the Leafs being on pace to be worse than 09-10 and how the good stretch on the West coast was a mirage, and the Leafs limped into the All Star break; and it was all doom and gloom all the time.

And, then, they went 18-9-6 to close out the season. Good times.

Seriously. I mean, between then and now, the Leafs have won, what, 8 Stanley Cups? Had 17 guys inducted into the Hall of Fame? I mean, all the doom and gloom around here, you'd think they weren't putting the finishing touches on the 80 foot tall Brian Burke statue that's going to replace the old City Hall.

 

[Corn Flake]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

I hear you but don't you think it would be smarter to be a "seller" at this point? I mean, I don't want to make a "drastic" move, squeak into the playoffs, and get killed in the 1st round. If we can get a player/players who are going to be part of the long-term core, sure... but other then that, I'm not interested in rentals and such.

I agree with both... should sell some extra parts but should also not go out and rent all kinds of things.  BUT... i think that should be the case whether they are in or they are out. 

ie: I think one of Bozak, Grabbo or Connolly should go.  my pick would be Connolly but the Grabbo UFA situation is looming and could influence the choice.

I think one d-men has to be moved and the pick would be Komisarek but he's likely back in the untradeable bin.  Liles being UFA also looms and could influence the choice.

Both of those things should happen regardless of where this team is in the standings.

I have absolutely no concept for the notion that you would trade Kessel or Lupul at this point, unless of course the trade involves getting a better player than either of them.  Thats the stuff I was commenting on earlier.

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah I'm not saying the current position they are in is not a big concern. I'm frustrated as all heck about it.  I'm referring specifically to talk of trading top players and "rebuild" etc...

I think this team needs a trade and needs to be improved, but its so premature to talk about more drastic measures, its crazy.

I hear you but don't you think it would be smarter to be a "seller" at this point? I mean, I don't want to make a "drastic" move, squeak into the playoffs, and get killed in the 1st round. If we can get a player/players who are going to be part of the long-term core, sure... but other then that, I'm not interested in rentals and such.

I agree with both... should sell some extra parts but should also not go out and rent all kinds of things.  BUT... i think that should be the case whether they are in or they are out. 

ie: I think one of Bozak, Grabbo or Connolly should go.  my pick would be Connolly but the Grabbo UFA situation is looming and could influence the choice.

I think one d-men has to be moved and the pick would be Komisarek but he's likely back in the untradeable bin.  Liles being UFA also looms and could influence the choice.

Both of those things should happen regardless of where this team is in the standings.

I have absolutely no concept for the notion that you would trade Kessel or Lupul at this point, unless of course the trade involves getting a better player than either of them.  Thats the stuff I was commenting on earlier.

Well, I guess we're by in large on the same page except I'm not willing to discount "futures" as useless - depending on what they are of course.

 

[Fanatic]

Why does it seem like Ottawa did a rebuild that has landed them better future talent and they are ahead in the standings as well.

I think the Leafs problem is that this hybrid rebuild has not worked so far. They are neither clearly building for the future nor clearly playing to go as far as possible here and now.

 

[bustaheims]

Seriously. I mean, between then and now, the Leafs have won, what, 8 Stanley Cups? Had 17 guys inducted into the Hall of Fame? I mean, all the doom and gloom around here, you'd think they weren't putting the finishing touches on the 80 foot tall Brian Burke statue that's going to replace the old City Hall.

I was going more with the idea that abandoning all hope halfway through a season - especially one where the Leafs are still very much in reach of a playoff spot - is a little premature. There's still a lot of hockey left to play, and, given the Leafs' history of post All Star break/trade deadline surges, being close to a spot right now ain't all that bad.

 

[Jalili]

Why does it seem like Ottawa did a rebuild that has landed them better future talent and they are ahead in the standings as well.

I think the Leafs problem is that this hybrid rebuild has not worked so far. They are neither clearly building for the future nor clearly playing to go as far as possible here and now.

Think of it this way. Fletcher drafted Schenn with the 5th overall pick a few years back, Murray drafted Karlsson at 15th. TO had the higher pick yet Ottawa managed to get their hands on the superior player. All it takes is little things like that to give them the edge over TO right now.

 

[maplesyrup]

I haven't given up hope. 22-15-0 just seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm maintaining my positive outlook under the feeling that A) We're in better shape than last year at this time and B) If/when we don't make the playoffs, we have more attractive moveable pieces to offer contending clubs than last year too.

 

[rdowdall]

I haven't given up hope. 22-15-0 just seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm maintaining my positive outlook under the feeling that A) We're in better shape than last year at this time and B) If/when we don't make the playoffs, we have more attractive moveable pieces to offer contending clubs than last year too.

And that 22-15 is based on a number that may or may not get the Leafs in to a playoff spot.

 

[maplesyrup]

I haven't given up hope. 22-15-0 just seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm maintaining my positive outlook under the feeling that A) We're in better shape than last year at this time and B) If/when we don't make the playoffs, we have more attractive moveable pieces to offer contending clubs than last year too.

And that 22-15 is based on a number that may or may not get the Leafs in to a playoff spot.

I wouldn't expect the cut off to be outside of +2/-2 points to get in.

 

[rdowdall]

I haven't given up hope. 22-15-0 just seems like a bit of a stretch to me. I'm maintaining my positive outlook under the feeling that A) We're in better shape than last year at this time and B) If/when we don't make the playoffs, we have more attractive moveable pieces to offer contending clubs than last year too.

And that 22-15 is based on a number that may or may not get the Leafs in to a playoff spot.

I wouldn't expect the cut off to be outside of +2/-2 points to get in.

I agree, but it's just another assumption, along the lines of assuming that the Leafs are going to go on a run here.  Either way, 22-15 is difficult.