Maple Leafs are better, but are they a playoff team?
- Thread starter cw
- Start date
Zee
Active member
Sarge said:
I haven't totally given up either, and the only saving grace for me if the Leafs miss the playoffs is my assumption that Ron Wilson will finally be relieved of his coaching duties. Of course if the Leafs miss the playoffs, and Ron Wilson somehow remains on as coach next season, I really think I'll stop watching the Leafs.
Bullfrog
Active member
Zee said:
But looking at it in terms of wins and losses isn't prudent, because OTL losses count as points. So it's disingenuous of you to ignore those points.
Besides, if we're going to play funny games with the standings, two of their OTL points are from shoot-out losses (ties in the old standings.) so, they'd be 22-21-2, which is winning one more game than losing.
Zee said:
I'm not sure why you're being sarcastic for to be honest. Look at Anderson's numbers, they are far better than what Reimer or Gustavsson have provided thus far. I don't know how you can't think that he's been a big reason as to why Ottawa has won as many games as they have this year.
maplesyrup
New member
Bullfrog said:
Imagine what it'll be like with a poor result tonight!
Bullfrog said:
Are you still reading Dawkins?
I just finished watching part 1 of The Enemies of Reason, think of it as pigeons looking over their left shoulder at the right moment for what they're pecking at ( it's on Google video, around the 35 minute mark... ), doesn't matter.
Zee said:
Ok, that's fine, but still, adequate goaltending is adequate goaltending and he has been a reason why they've been winning. Gustavsson has given us a chance to win as well lately but Anderson's also played twice as many games as Jonas. Maybe if Jonas played 40 games we'd be alright, but at the end of the day the Sens are where they are partially because of Anderson. And luckily Jonas is beginning to hold his own.
I still don't see the need for your sarcastic comment earlier, as my point is still valid.
Bullfrog said:
3-2 against the Wild, Habs, Islanders x 2 and the Penguins, isn't good enough. They need to win those games. Mainly because they are teams below them, and they don't have points to give up. Also, they no longer control their own fate. Once you are out of a playoff spot, you now rely on someone else dropping out, which means you need things to fall in to place for you. I was fine as long as they held on to the 8th spot because they just had to keep pace. Now they have to keep pace and hope that someone else can't. And the reality is if they only go 3-2 against the 4 teams listed above, then how are they going to compete against the teams that are ahead of them. You can call it doom and gloom if you like, but there is a certain urgency to the Leafs current situation.
crazyperfectdevil
New member
leafs should have won that game against ottawa..9 times out of 10 they would of..if they had of ..it'd be a 2 game winning streak and things would be looking up ...it didn't happen....still it means to me the team is hardly in a tailspin ...also ..i hate to say this..but just stop using reimer for a while...
Bullfrog
Active member
Significantly Insignificant said:
Sure there's urgency, no argument there. But you can have urgency and optimism at the same time.
At this point it makes no difference to me whether they're in 9th or 8th. It's not statistically significant. It would be if every team finished the season at exactly the same point winning rate, but they won't. Teams will drop and fall. The standings you see now won't be the standings you see next week, or next month.
Etiam Vultus
New member
Maybe I am too much of a "half glass full" type, but in the midst of all the doom and gloom:
a) There is a big difference between having an old team on the fringe of the playoff race (see JFJ teams) and one of the youngest in the league playing at the same level.
b) Some fans and media have given up on Ron Wilson, but the players are still playing hard for him. What matters more?
c) Burke and Wilson have, surprisingly quietly, changed their philosophy to keep up with the times. Instead of having two scoring lines and two full of truculence, testosterone and belligerence, the Leafs are now icing three scoring lines and one for defensive purposes. Still lots of areas that can be improved, but a vastly more interesting team to watch. And also one that has a better chance of catching up to the elite teams in the league.
d) Bill James did a lot of research in baseball on run differential, i.e. the difference between the number of runs a teams scores versus the number that they allow. In brief, a lucky team can have a winning record by winning close games because of lucky bounces, but this will not last over the longer term. A better evaluation can be made by looking at run differential. (It takes a really good team to win blowouts on a consistent basis.) If the same holds true for goal differential in hockey (and I think it does), then the Leafs are more likely to be in the playoffs at the end of the season than some of the other teams from fifth to eighth.
a) There is a big difference between having an old team on the fringe of the playoff race (see JFJ teams) and one of the youngest in the league playing at the same level.
b) Some fans and media have given up on Ron Wilson, but the players are still playing hard for him. What matters more?
c) Burke and Wilson have, surprisingly quietly, changed their philosophy to keep up with the times. Instead of having two scoring lines and two full of truculence, testosterone and belligerence, the Leafs are now icing three scoring lines and one for defensive purposes. Still lots of areas that can be improved, but a vastly more interesting team to watch. And also one that has a better chance of catching up to the elite teams in the league.
d) Bill James did a lot of research in baseball on run differential, i.e. the difference between the number of runs a teams scores versus the number that they allow. In brief, a lucky team can have a winning record by winning close games because of lucky bounces, but this will not last over the longer term. A better evaluation can be made by looking at run differential. (It takes a really good team to win blowouts on a consistent basis.) If the same holds true for goal differential in hockey (and I think it does), then the Leafs are more likely to be in the playoffs at the end of the season than some of the other teams from fifth to eighth.
maplesyrup
New member
Thread gets ugly in 3... 2...
ZBBM
Active member
Our 11 games going into the break are 9 on the road and 2 at home. We started by sweeping a 4-game homestand, and were poised to solidify a playoff position. Since then we've gone 1-4.
Tonight we lost to a team that itself lost last night, while our guys were relaxing at home, recharging their batteries for a spirited effort on the game's biggest stage against one our two archrivals.
Oh. Wait.
And the exact same thing was true for the game before last.
Now, if I were an ultracompetitive GM, losing games like that to OTT and MTL would touch off major alarm bells. On tonight's broadcast we were shown a clip of Tortorella tearing a strip off somebody on the bench. This, on a team that is in first place in the conference.
Our "hall of fame" coach, by contrast? How well prepared, well motivated, was the team tonight? Against OTT?
Bah, enough of that. We have a home and home against the Isles before the break. Win those 2, and that leaves us with a 7-4 record over the last 11 games. Do that, and there may be some hope yet of climbing into an 8th place spot. But the schedule gets much tougher after the ASG.
Tonight we lost to a team that itself lost last night, while our guys were relaxing at home, recharging their batteries for a spirited effort on the game's biggest stage against one our two archrivals.
Oh. Wait.
And the exact same thing was true for the game before last.
Now, if I were an ultracompetitive GM, losing games like that to OTT and MTL would touch off major alarm bells. On tonight's broadcast we were shown a clip of Tortorella tearing a strip off somebody on the bench. This, on a team that is in first place in the conference.
Our "hall of fame" coach, by contrast? How well prepared, well motivated, was the team tonight? Against OTT?
Bah, enough of that. We have a home and home against the Isles before the break. Win those 2, and that leaves us with a 7-4 record over the last 11 games. Do that, and there may be some hope yet of climbing into an 8th place spot. But the schedule gets much tougher after the ASG.
applecheeks
New member
Disappointing that we can't beat teams in our own division. These games are so important and the lack of urgency to win is upsetting. I guess....no, not ready for playoffs. maybe next week.