Marner signs 6 year, $10.893mil AAV contract

[CarltonTheBear]

I think Nylander's contract was fair, Dubas' mistake there was just not getting up to that number earlier in the negotiations.

I think Matthew's contract was fair. I'm not worried one bit at this point about him bolting at 5 years, and his exceptional AAV reflects the fact that he's an exceptional player.

I think Marner's number was high. I'm not going to shy away from that. My main point of contention with those negotiations was that Marner clearly valued himself at Matthews' level and I'm not really convinced that he's there for a few reasons that I've already gone through. With that said it's done, it's signed for 6 years and if Mitch Marner is the "worst" contract on the team that's not going to cripple this group.

I wish all 3 of these contracts for lower for obvious fan-related reasons. I wish we got more steals like we've seen teams like Tampa and Boston get. But I've also spent years and years saying that elite players were underpaid and were idiots for taking less than what they should be getting. So it's hard for me to turn around now and be upset about that not happening.

 

[Coco-puffs]

I think Nylander's contract was fair, Dubas' mistake there was just not getting up to that number earlier in the negotiations.

I think Matthew's contract was fair. I'm not worried one bit at this point about him bolting at 5 years, and his exceptional AAV reflects the fact that he's an exceptional player.

I think Marner's number was high. I'm not going to shy away from that. My main point of contention with those negotiations was that Marner clearly valued himself at Matthews' level and I'm not really convinced that he's there for a few reasons that I've already gone through. With that said it's done, it's signed for 6 years and if Mitch Marner is the "worst" contract on the team that's not going to cripple this group.

I wish all 3 of these contracts for lower for obvious fan-related reasons. I wish we got more steals like we've seen teams like Tampa and Boston get. But I've also spent years and years saying that elite players were underpaid and were idiots for taking less than what they should be getting. So it's hard for me to turn around now and be upset about that not happening.

I agree with all of the above.  And I'll add one more thing:

I think its going to be a hell of a lot easier to get mid-tier players on "steal" contracts.  Ultimately, there are a heck of a lot more mid-tier players to go around and if you treat your stars well and you put out a contender every year, you'll see players who want to play for this team who will probably take a hit on AAV. 

 

[Peter D.]

It's weird, as now that the dust has settled, out of the three contracts, I think Nylander's is the "fairest".  I think he bounces back with a great year this season, and will make the $7 million price tag look reasonable.

Matthews and Marner -- I still believe those are top dollars for max terms.  And still disappointed not a single one came in at 8 years.  But whatever at this point. 

 

[Kin]

I wish all 3 of these contracts for lower for obvious fan-related reasons. I wish we got more steals like we've seen teams like Tampa and Boston get. But I've also spent years and years saying that elite players were underpaid and were idiots for taking less than what they should be getting. So it's hard for me to turn around now and be upset about that not happening.

But ignoring Tampa for a moment, when we talk about players being steals aren't we usually talking about players who signed contracts that were pretty fair for their established level of play and then progressed into making their contracts look like bargains?

Because, if so, that could very easily still be the case for someone like Nylander and the Leafs do have someone like that already in Rielly, so it's not like the "Can't the Leafs ever catch a break?" narrative pushed by some really has much of a leg to stand on.

 

[princedpw]

I think Nylander's contract was fair, Dubas' mistake there was just not getting up to that number earlier in the negotiations.

I think Matthew's contract was fair. I'm not worried one bit at this point about him bolting at 5 years, and his exceptional AAV reflects the fact that he's an exceptional player.

I think Marner's number was high. I'm not going to shy away from that. My main point of contention with those negotiations was that Marner clearly valued himself at Matthews' level and I'm not really convinced that he's there for a few reasons that I've already gone through. With that said it's done, it's signed for 6 years and if Mitch Marner is the "worst" contract on the team that's not going to cripple this group.

I wish all 3 of these contracts for lower for obvious fan-related reasons. I wish we got more steals like we've seen teams like Tampa and Boston get. But I've also spent years and years saying that elite players were underpaid and were idiots for taking less than what they should be getting. So it's hard for me to turn around now and be upset about that not happening.

This is basically where I'm at too.  Except that cumulatively, the salaries of Reilly, Anderson, Muzzin, Barrie, Kapanen, Johnsson are really, really helping us this year.  Each year, we are going to be losing a chunk of those key guys so we are going to have to find a way to get more value guys without just gutting the team.  I'm worried about the future but I should be focusing on the now, which is great!  Just breath and enjoy the season. 

 

[herman]

In addition to making sure he could and he did, Dubas wiggled out of Marleau and Zaitsev with present day gains (arguably).

Even up against the bridges, we?re only looking at 1.3M AAV per extra year of Marner. Nylander remains really the only ?mistake? for the reason Carlton mentioned earlier. It?s $7M for 5.5 years of Nylander because trying to work his number lower into October was a waste.

Without Marner, Tkachuk and Point probably sign these same numbers for more term. 

 

[Kin]

In addition to making sure he could and he did, Dubas wiggled out of Marleau and Zaitsev with present day gains (arguably).

I don't know if I'm with you on Zaitsev there but let's be real about Marleau. Nothing got wriggled out of. Dubas paid full retail price for that.

 

[herman]

In addition to making sure he could and he did, Dubas wiggled out of Marleau and Zaitsev with present day gains (arguably).

I don't know if I'm with you on Zaitsev there but let's be real about Marleau. Nothing got wriggled out of. Dubas paid full retail price for that.

I didn?t strike me as a steep price (20th+ pick) for an expensive NMC veteran that could barely play. I?m willing to be convinced otherwise, but it was a big time worry for 2+ seasons and I now forgot it even happened.

 

[Kin]

I didn?t strike me as a steep price (20th+ pick) for an expensive NMC veteran that could barely play. I?m willing to be convinced otherwise, but it was a big time worry for 2+ seasons and I now forgot it even happened.

I suppose I'll be more cavalier about dealing draft picks as soon as this management group proves they can find talent outside of the 1st round.

 

[herman]

I didn?t strike me as a steep price (20th+ pick) for an expensive NMC veteran that could barely play. I?m willing to be convinced otherwise, but it was a big time worry for 2+ seasons and I now forgot it even happened.

I suppose I'll be more cavalier about dealing draft picks as soon as this management group proves they can find talent outside of the 1st round.

Yeah, that's probably the difference in assessment between us.

 

[Kin]

Yeah, that's probably the difference in assessment between us.

To be clear, I think it was a good decision in balance. Lots of purchases I've made at full retail price have been things I liked and were good value.

 

[herman]

To be clear, I think it was a good decision in balance. Lots of purchases I've made at full retail price have been things I liked and were good value.

I agree. Some moves need to be measured on the aggregate. Some things just need to get done the cleanest way with no hard feelings and that comes with a cost.

Not sure how they precipitated but both of our biggest albatrosses asking to be traded is not how I imagined it playing out. I was looking forward to chicanery.

 

[Deebo]

If Marleau was like a Datsyuk situation where it was just cap hit moving, I think they could have moved for less than 1st.

However, this cost Carolina nearly $4M in actual money.

 

[Coco-puffs]

If Marleau was like a Datsyuk situation where it was just cap hit moving, I think they could have moved for less than 1st.

However, this cost Carolina nearly $4M in actual money.

And its a cap hit that actually eats into Carolina's cap space- had they not traded Faulk they would have been over the cap. 

Arizona had tons of cap space in 2016-2017 they weren't using on their roster (as they were a budget team).

 

[disco]

https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNHL/status/1176942025255661569
Sebastian Aho 5 x 8.5M
Timo Meier 4 x 6M

 

[mr grieves]

The salary structure the Leafs have now got is not one that's ever been seen in the Stanley Cup Finals. That's concerning.

Not going to argue the numbers, but the doesn't the makeup of the team sort of resemble the 16/17 penguins stanley cup teams? High quality top forwards, one or two top defencemen, a good goalie, and a mishmash of spare parts for the bottom part of the lineup?

Yes, that'd be the model the Leafs are aiming at. But, with their high-quality top forwards under big contracts, the Penguins didn't win until they made some moves for secondary talent and quality depth -- and they could only do that after a couple years passed and the cap rose to push the C.H.% of their top talent down, which gave them the space to add.

Hey TML Fans! Long time, no see!

I was pretty sure I predicted having a top-heavy structure something that would doom the team to disappointments until the cap rises, which, given the global pandemic that cropped up since I've last been here, should be juuuust before this round of contracts expire... So, came back here to find that.

What I didn't expect is that the Leafs' top-heavy roster would be so far from up to the task. The equally top-heavy Oilers got swept but their $11M men combined for 3 goals, whereas Matthews and Marner, with three extra games, got 1/3 of that.

Management squeezed just about every nickel of value they could out of the fringes of the roster, fulfilling their end of the bargain when allocating all that space to the stars, so I don't know where they go from here.... follow a path like that of the Caps or Sharks? Or flip Marner into the proverbial tenth row (Buffalo)?

 

[Kin]

Personally, I don't really think this team was done in by a cap crunch at the top. I think the bigger failure was that because they invested so much in getting the team to where they are via shortcut rather than team building(and the subsequent losses of draft picks) they had to round out the team hoping to get good performances out of fringe players and guys who were past their primes instead of having a bunch of young guys on cheap rookie deals who could add the sort of depth they need.

 

[Bender]

Personally, I don't really think this team was done in by a cap crunch at the top. I think the bigger failure was that because they invested so much in getting the team to where they are via shortcut rather than team building(and the subsequent losses of draft picks) they had to round out the team hoping to get good performances out of fringe players and guys who were past their primes instead of having a bunch of young guys on cheap rookie deals who could add the sort of depth they need.

To some extent part of the issue of being top heavy though. Once decent players ELCs are up you have to pay them. Being top heavy also concentrates risk as you can see with JT being injured.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Next year we should see some of those young guys making the lineup.. Robertson, Sandin, Liljegren should be regulars.

 

[Kin]

To some extent part of the issue of being top heavy though. Once decent players ELCs are up you have to pay them. Being top heavy also concentrates risk as you can see with JT being injured.

Well, sure, but it's not like the Leafs have really faced that though. There isn't the really solid 21 or 22 year old who's provided value way over his cap hit who we're all looking around and wondering how we're going to re-sign them. They haven't had to move out really good players because we just can't figure out how to make the puzzle pieces fit. At worst, we're wondering if we can re-sign Hyman who, while a good player, is not a difference maker.

It's an extreme example but I'm thinking of the Tampa sort of thing where, you know, they come up with all of these young guys who can play and build their team's depth around them vs. importing older guys. The Leafs haven't done that yet.