Marner signs 6 year, $10.893mil AAV contract
- Thread starter Zee
- Start date
Deebo said:
Yeah my skepticsm is more about the NHL actually increasing the value of the TV deal by 8 times. Also just generally trying to project the cap ceiling years down the line has always seemed like a fools errand. I remember when Kane and Toews signed their massive deals there was a lot of talk about how the cap was going to explode soon and that their deals would look fine because of that, but the ceiling didn't get close to what people were projecting.
OldTimeHockey
Active member
freer said:
You're telling me if your boss offered you 108,000 a year you'd say, "I'm good, just pay me $68000. God forbid I make too much money"...
Zee
Active member
So hear me out here. I'm of the camp that believes the Leafs are slightly overpaying their guys in relation to comparable players on other teams. I'm also of the camp that says "who cares?" Looking at Tampa's cap situation, they're spending $79M with a full roster. Leafs are spending over $94M with a full roster. Both teams are cap compliant thanks to LTIR for the Leafs.
My question is this - what's to prevent the Leafs from doing this all the time? Acquire players on LTIR so you can artificially exceed the cap, thereby making the entire conversation of "player X is being paid y amount too much" a moot point?
I get that you have less flexibility when using LTIR, Leafs can't accrue cap space in season and it might limit their options at trade deadline, but so be it. They should still be able to sign players going forward if they use the same approach that they've done thus far.
My question is this - what's to prevent the Leafs from doing this all the time? Acquire players on LTIR so you can artificially exceed the cap, thereby making the entire conversation of "player X is being paid y amount too much" a moot point?
I get that you have less flexibility when using LTIR, Leafs can't accrue cap space in season and it might limit their options at trade deadline, but so be it. They should still be able to sign players going forward if they use the same approach that they've done thus far.
Zee said:
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Players on LTIR only artifically raise the cap by the amount of their own cap hits. So you're still better off not having them. Horton and Clarkson's deals are both off the books after this season, and there would be absolutely no benefit for the Leafs to go out and acquire more LTIR-able contracts after that.
Zee said:
Yeah I think you're off on LTIR here. It feels like you think it raises the cap ceiling AND makes the cap hits for players on LTIR disappear. So you're doubling the cap benefit, which of course isn't how that works. Those cap hits for injured players don't just disappear.
A team with an $81mil total cap hit for active players is in better cap shape than a team with an $81mil total cap hit for active players plus $10mil for LTIR players.
Zee
Active member
CarltonTheBear said:
I'm just saying, Leafs have projected cap space of 15M next season and 5 defencemen to sign (plus some forwards). That 15M isn't going to cut it if we want some good d-men like Barrie with a big cap hit. So Leafs could conceivably do the same thing they just did this year, acquire guys on LTIR to get to 81.5M and then use that LTIR provision to go above the cap again.
Zee said:
Ok so let's just say the Leafs have $15mil in cap space for 20/21. If they went out and acquired $15mil worth of injured guys like you suggested to get to $81.5mil and then they placed those guys on LTIR... that would only create $15mil in available cap space. So there's no benefit.
Bill_Berg
Active member
The injured player's salary still counts towards the cap. So they're at 80mill, they get an injured player with a 10 mill cap hit, the cap limit goes to 90 mill, but the team's cap hit also goes up to 90 mill. They don't suddenly have 10 mill to spend on a different player.
herman
Well-known member
Zee said:
That scenario actually leaves the Leafs with less space to work with, in addition to limiting their deadline flexibility.
The LTIR provision = Annual Cap Limit - Annualized Cap Hit (including injured player(s)) + Annual cap hit of players going to LTIR
It's near impossible to get your annualized cap hit to exactly 81.5M, so let's say you pick up Gaborik (4.875M) as a hypothetical and manage to push your annualized cap hit to 81.375M. You put Gaborik on LTIR because you want to bring in some UFA RD. You can now exceed the cap limit by 4.875M - (81.5M - 81.375M) = 4.75M
Last I checked, 4.75M < 4.875M; you're better off not getting Gaborik to begin with and accruing the original 5M of space over the course of the season, and landing a big fish at the deadline.
If the Leafs had $100mil worth of players on LTIR right now, they could still only spend about $81.5mil on players on the active roster.
Nik the Trik said:
Yeah that counts a 23-man roster plus Dermott, Hyman, Horton, and Clarkson (and Kessel's retention). The Leafs can't start the season at that number unless they also place Dermott and Hyman on LTIR. Once those guys are back they'll need to drop that number to roughly $92mil ($81.5mil + Horton/Clarkson's cap hits).
Coco-puffs
New member
Zee said:
Or use a bunch of ELC/Cheap D-men:
Rielly - Dermott (3M)
Sandin - Barrie (8M)
Marincin (750k) - Liljegren
Would work, for instance. Highly unlikely we can keep both of Barrie and Muzzin.
PS I put very little thought into the above. I'm sure an upgrade on Marincin could be had. Muzzin would be preferable over Barrie if its a short-term deal (I think Muzz provides more of what the team needs than Barrie) but a long term deal Muzzin's age scares me. Muzzin should also come in cheaper, so we might be able to spend 2-3M more on a more established guy than Marincin.