Mitch Marner: what now?

[Bender]

Updates from a couple other RFAs:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/ben-kuzma-canucks-hoping-to-get-boeser-contract-extension-done-before-camp-opens

Boeser is asking for 4 years with a $7mil AAV. Similar, but higher than, the deal that Timo Meier signed with San Jose. Since he apparently doesn't know he can just say "no comment" Benning pretty much admitted this was true while also saying he wouldn't be interested in back-loading the deal like Meier did.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/08/15/avalanche-joe-sakic-on-mikko-rantanen

This article doesn't mention what Rantanen's ask is because I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one yet. Sakic basically admits dialogue hasn't really even started yet on the contract. It says Sakic called Rantanen personally recently to see if he wants a short term or long term deal, and that's basically all the communication that's taken place between the two sides since the draft.

I wonder why it's taken so long for Sakic to start dialogue with Rantanen's agent. It's nice to know it isn't just us dealing with his logjam, and you have to think that even if Marner does sign that the logjam won't just automatically clear, either.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

https://twitter.com/DaveAMcCarthy/status/1164570426506403842

So for those of you who have had the pleasure of not knowing anything about this, Dave Bolland's spent the past couple days ferociously arguing with Leafs fans on twitter about how Marner is more valuable than Matthews. Like, it's been weird. Dozens and dozens of tweets about the subject from him despite the fact that prior to this outburst he almost never seemed to really post things on twitter.

Initially I just assumed that he just wanted to get peoples attention and be the next Patrick O'Sullivan or something. But then...

https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1164301381634859008

I mean I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but that's an interesting connection.

 

[Bates]

I thought I read that the Avs offered several deals to Rantanen during last season with not much luck so kinda stepped back since the season ended. Kinda hard to negotiate with yourself??

 

[Zee]

https://twitter.com/DaveAMcCarthy/status/1164570426506403842

So for those of you who have had the pleasure of not knowing anything about this, Dave Bolland's spent the past couple days ferociously arguing with Leafs fans on twitter about how Marner is more valuable than Matthews. Like, it's been weird. Dozens and dozens of tweets about the subject from him despite the fact that prior to this outburst he almost never seemed to really post things on twitter.

Initially I just assumed that he just wanted to get peoples attention and be the next Patrick O'Sullivan or something. But then...

https://twitter.com/mikeystephens81/status/1164301381634859008

I mean I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but that's an interesting connection.

You don't have to be a conspiracy  theorist to just assume he's towing the company line.  Also, his firm and Ferris' firm merged this past summer there was a reporter who broke the new -- DARREN DREGER!

 

[Redleaf]

Well if Marner and company are holding out for Matthews money, They?d better start seeing if any other teams agree with Bolland that he?s better than Matthews, because I?m pretty certain he won?t get close to a Matthews deal in Toronto.

 

[Zee]

Well if Marner and company are holding out for Matthews money, They?d better start seeing if any other teams agree with Bolland that he?s better than Matthews, because I?m pretty certain he won?t get close to a Matthews deal in Toronto.

I'm sure there would be some GM that would pay Marner 12M+ if he was a UFA and there was no compensation required.

 

[Kin]

I think people are wildly overstating the importance of things like "They're not even negotiating" or "They haven't even made an offer!" while we're this far out from camp. Because NHL contracts aren't that complicated, even with structures and bonus money taken into account, a real desire to see a deal done can get one done in 20 minutes. Not negotiating is a tactic used by both team and player to try and have an impact on the eventual negotiations.

I get because of the Nylander thing people here might be inclined to tear their hair out and panic but having one of these RFA's signed now vs. signed two or three weeks from now makes literally no difference to either player or team. Even the old joke about wanting to sign guys in early july so you can get to the cottage early doesn't apply these days with cell phones and the year round schedule everyone's on.

We're going to be hearing a lot of things like "Maybe I'll play in Europe" or "I'm not even that committed to playing in Winnipeg" or "I don't even like Hockey and am going to become the world's greatest marine biologist" over the next few weeks so it's no use losing your mind over it.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/DaveAMcCarthy/status/1164571018033278979
From that article Carlton shared...

"I'm not saying Matthews is anything less but I'm saying as myself, I see Marner as a top guy that when [head coach Mike] Babcock looks down the bench, he seems to look for Marner," Bolland said.

Actually, Babcock was looking for John Tavares.

 

[nutman]

more then 8.5 and we are over paying. so 8.5 over six yrs is the deal we offer take it or leave it. I think that is a fair deal.

 

[Bullfrog]

Whether you think it's a fair deal or not, you don't adopt a "take it or leave it" attitude for a premier player like Marner.

That's an offer you make when you're looking to add a part-time painter to your painting business and you've got 12 applicants you can choose from.

 

[hockeyfan1]

From MLHS:

[tweet]1164343871637217280[/tweet]

?In this particular case, if you look at the history of the agent who represents Mitch ? Darren Ferris, who is based in Toronto ? and some of his contract battles with some of the previous teams, several of his clients have either gone over to train or talked about going overseas. One was Josh Anderson in Columbus, one was Athanasiou in Detroit, one was Sam Bennett in Calgary. When this came out the other day, I don?t think anybody saw it as a huge surprise.?

?I think the frustration is that if you want to do a long-term deal, they just haven?t moved anywhere. I think that the organization is really frustrated by that ? that it isn?t going anywhere. The other thing, too, is that I just think there is a really feeling with the Leafs that what happened with Nylander, they?re not doing that again. They?re not going through that again. They are not signing a guy on December 1st. I just think there is a lot of frustration because of all of that.?

 

[Kin]

8.5 is what Draisaitl got after putting up 137 points in 191 games.

Marner has 224 points in 241 games.

 

[Bates]

8.5 is what Draisaitl got after putting up 137 points in 191 games.

Marner has 224 points in 241 games.

8.5 is what Draisaitl got after dominating a playoff run while playing center. Perspective kinda matters. And most thought the Draisaitl contract was too much too soon.

 

[Kin]

Hey, you know those hockey writers who don't watch any games and just look a guy up online to see what position he's listed at and then vote for him at the wrong position for the end of year all-star teams?

Well, we've found their constituency.

 

[Bates]

Hey, you know those hockey writers who don't watch any games and just look a guy up online to see what position he's listed at and then vote for him at the wrong position for the end of year all-star teams?

Well, we've found their constituency.

Not quite, Draisaitl was playing center back then. Maybe you weren't watching.

 

[Kin]

Draisaitl was on McDavid's wing for the 2016-2017 season. McDavid finished first in AS voting for Centers, Draisaitl finished 4th in RW voting:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2017.html#AS

Draisaitl's Line Combo %

https://edmontonsun.com/2017/09/28/leon-draisaitl-assumes-right-wing-spot-alongside-connor-mcdavid-at-edmonton-oilers-practice/wcm/b2161fb0-9ef5-4146-89a9-eea5d9fc757d

 

[Bates]

Draisaitl was on McDavid's wing for the 2016-2017 season. McDavid finished first in AS voting for Centers, Draisaitl finished 4th in RW voting:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2017.html#AS

Draisaitl's Line Combo %

https://edmontonsun.com/2017/09/28/leon-draisaitl-assumes-right-wing-spot-alongside-connor-mcdavid-at-edmonton-oilers-practice/wcm/b2161fb0-9ef5-4146-89a9-eea5d9fc757d

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Here's an example:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/dan-barnes-leon-draisaitl-leads-oilers-to-total-beat-down-of-ducks

 

[Kin]

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Here's an example:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/dan-barnes-leon-draisaitl-leads-oilers-to-total-beat-down-of-ducks

From your article:

?He?s been a horse,? said Zack Kassian. ?Everyone knows how good he is in here. Sometimes he doesn?t get enough credit because he plays with (Connor McDavid). But we all know what he?s capable of.?

From my article:

Draisaitl and McDavid were linemates for months last season and into round two of the playoffs before Draisaitl centred his own line against the Anaheim Ducks, going head-to-head with Ryan Getzlaf.

Here's Draisaitl's line combo % from the playoffs, it's virtually unchanged from the regular season:

Still with McDavid

They tried Draisaitl at C for a couple games near the end of the Anaheim series but he was still McDavid's winger for the regular season and the bulk of the playoffs.

 

[Bates]

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Here's an example:

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/edmonton-oilers/dan-barnes-leon-draisaitl-leads-oilers-to-total-beat-down-of-ducks

From your article:

?He?s been a horse,? said Zack Kassian. ?Everyone knows how good he is in here. Sometimes he doesn?t get enough credit because he plays with (Connor McDavid). But we all know what he?s capable of.?

From my article:

Draisaitl and McDavid were linemates for months last season and into round two of the playoffs before Draisaitl centred his own line against the Anaheim Ducks, going head-to-head with Ryan Getzlaf.

Here's Draisaitl's line combo % from the playoffs, it's virtually unchanged from the regular season:

Still with McDavid

They tried Draisaitl at C for a couple games near the end of the Anaheim series but he was still McDavid's winger for the regular season and the bulk of the playoffs.

He played center and played it well making the Oilers confident he would be their number 2. You make it sound like he has to play wing. He plays wing most of the time because they have no one else good enough to play center with McDavid. Many articles about his contract talk about this.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Draisaitl played some centre in his 3rd season, both in the regular season and playoffs, but the majority of his time was still spent on the wing with McDavid. When he signed his new deal the conversation was still "can he centre his own line" and honestly that's still not really something that's been answered because he's primarily been used as a winger even since then.