Nonis using depth to go shopping....

[Tigger]

I'm no mathologist but that assumes Grabs/Kulemin get 10 million between them which, quite frankly, does not seem overly likely right now.

Yeah. Depending on contract length, we're likely looking at $2.75M-$3.25M for Kulemin (unless he really picks up the pace over the rest of the season) and ~$5M for Grabovski, putting the cap hit for the line at ~$11M, which, for is quite reasonable for a 2nd line if they find a production level somewhere between this season and last season.

Wow! We're about a mil. apart on what we think Kulemin might get... For the Leafs sake, I hope I'm wrong.

Yeah, from what's been posted and the fact that he's still a rfa I don't think he's going to get that much.

 

[maplesyrup]

~4.5 for Grabs? ~4 for Kulemin? + 3.25 (Mac) = ~12 (sorry bad math) Still, I don't much like that total for these three.  :-\

Right now Kulemin is on pace for a 9 goal, 32 point season. If he asks for and receives a four million dollar a year contract from Burke and Burke gives it to him then we've got significantly bigger problems than what the second line is making.

Fair enough... Though I think his agent will certainly try to argue he's worth 4. As Busta points out, perhaps a MacArthur like hit is where it will fall... Maybe slightly north of that though on a longer term. 3.5 mil X 4?

 

[Kin]

Personally, I'm glad we stayed away from Brad Richards.

I'm not. I think Richards, for NY this year, has been exactly the player the Leafs are missing and even if his numbers aren't eye popping(which shouldn't be a huge surprise given the Rangers style of play) it's still only the first year of his deal.

Besides, I think he was signing with the Rangers regardless of what our offer was.

I think, like the Mike Richards thing, there's no way to know about that. Not even pressing the issue, however, is the point there.

 

[Kin]

Fair enough... Though I think his agent will certainly try to argue he's worth 4. As Busta points out, perhaps a MacArthur like hit is where it will fall... Maybe slightly north of that though on a longer term. 3.5 mil X 4?

I don't know if that's a question but I sincerely doubt that the Leafs or Kulemin would be inclined to sign a long term deal based on the season Kulemin is having.

 

[maplesyrup]

Personally, I'm glad we stayed away from Brad Richards.

I'm not. I think Richards, for NY this year, has been exactly the player the Leafs are missing and even if his numbers aren't eye popping(which shouldn't be a huge surprise given the Rangers style of play) it's still only the first year of his deal.

Besides, I think he was signing with the Rangers regardless of what our offer was.

I think, like the Mike Richards thing, there's no way to know about that. Not even pressing the issue, however, is the point there.

Burke put in an offer he thought was fair ot at least an offer he was comfortable with. I'm not a Brad Richard's current deal with the Rangers... Far too much term in my opinion. 

 

[Kin]

Burke put in an offer he thought was fair ot at least an offer he was comfortable with.

Ok but, again, my original statement is that Burke didn't make a financially competitive offer not that he didn't make any offer. Regardless of the value Richards could have brought to the team, Burke's offer wasn't on the map.

 

[Tigger]

Personally, I'm glad we stayed away from Brad Richards. Besides, I think he was signing with the Rangers regardless of what our offer was.

Agreed. That really ended up being about the most unsurprising location choice since Hamhuis went to Vancouver.  Any interest shown towards teams other than NYR was pretty obviously done to up the Rangers offer.

I'm ok with it too, no disrespect to Brad, he's a helluva hockey player but the Leafs weren't really ready to contend and by the time they are I don't think he would be as effective or at least his price performance would be on the decline, that's a loooong contract too.

Frankly, looking at the other Richards and what it might have cost to get him, if the Leafs have a sniff at a player like Getzlaf ( and I don't know that they do ) I'd rather they had the assets to try for a deal like that and again that's with no disrespect to Mike but I don't see him as a #1C. I wouldn't have been really unhappy to get either player just that the team composition still is not close to championship calibre to me.

Landing both Richards would have been interesting, though I suspect Toronto was never really in the picture for Brad.

 

[Erndog]

Besides, I think he was signing with the Rangers regardless of what our offer was.

I think, like the Mike Richards thing, there's no way to know about that. Not even pressing the issue, however, is the point there.

Nik, let's be honest... he was signing with the Rangers unless we blew the doors off.

Some things don't have to be explicitly outlined.  He was going there plain and simple.

 

[Kin]

Nik, let's be honest... he was signing with the Rangers unless we blew the doors off.

I'd ask for anything resembling evidence to that effect but I asked that in the summer as well and, well, my cup didn't exactly runneth over. 

 

[maplesyrup]

Fair enough... Though I think his agent will certainly try to argue he's worth 4. As Busta points out, perhaps a MacArthur like hit is where it will fall... Maybe slightly north of that though on a longer term. 3.5 mil X 4?

I don't know if that's a question but I sincerely doubt that the Leafs or Kulemin would be inclined to sign a long term deal based on the season Kulemin is having.

I'm not married to Kulemin or anything but I certainly think he's capable of producing at the level deserving of a contract like that.

 

[Kin]

I'm not married to Kulemin or anything but I certainly think he's capable of producing at the level deserving of a contract like that.

Sure. He did it last year. Being capable of it is one thing but proving he's capable of doing it consistently is another. Again, this isn't a case of a guy going from scoring 60 points to scoring 50. It's a guy who's point total is about half of what it was and his goal total is a third of what it was.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Some people mentioned that perhaps the 'Second Line' from last year where having career years and I didn't want to believe it.  It's looking like they might well have been right.

 

[Tigger]

Fair enough... Though I think his agent will certainly try to argue he's worth 4. As Busta points out, perhaps a MacArthur like hit is where it will fall... Maybe slightly north of that though on a longer term. 3.5 mil X 4?

I don't know if that's a question but I sincerely doubt that the Leafs or Kulemin would be inclined to sign a long term deal based on the season Kulemin is having.

I'm not married to Kulemin or anything but I certainly think he's capable of producing at the level deserving of a contract like that.

We'll have a better idea once the full season is played out but if capability is the question then the Leafs might want more evidence and a shorter term deal seems more likely at this point to me. If I have it right he has two more years of rfa status? I'd think about a one year deal with an eye to something longer term after that.

 

[L K]

Yeah, my guess if Kulemin gets something like a 1 or 2 year 3M contract

 

[maplesyrup]

Yeah, my guess if Kulemin gets something like a 1 or 2 year 3M contract

Groovy then.

 

[TML fan]

You still failed to explain how they 'manhandled' us.  Like I said, we dominated the vast majority of that game, and Ottawa scored on a weak wrist shot to win it, after scoring on a very debatable tying goal.  I fail to see how weak goaltending/bad luck has to do with being manhandled, nor do I feel like when we were all over Ottawa for vast stretches of the game that we were being manhandled.  And I am certainly not going to take no one fighting Foligno after the clipping play as evidence of being manhandled - in fact I'm glad we took the PP out of it and that Phaneuf settled his score afterwards.

The Foligno incident is a bad indication of this team's mentality.  Remember back in the days when the Leafs would pound the crap out of the Sens, they would take the PPs instead of fighting back and yet the Leafs won the playoff series.  Now the Leafs are content to let their captain almost get his knees taken out without anyone immediately jumping the guy that did it.  That is pathetic.  But hey, we got the PP.

Remember we also used to lose evey regular season game by at least 7 goals?

Things happen differently in the playoffs. Winning the game was more important, and retribution is a shallow victory.

Besides, Foligno got his.

That was due to the fact that they let more go in the playoffs and the Leafs were able to play more physical against the Sens. 

So, the Leafs won by virtue of the refs letting them cheat more? Playing a physical game and cheating are different things.

 

[groundskeeper willie]

Burke confirmed Philly asked for Schenn and Kadri for Mike Richards last summer and he declined, correct?  :-\ In hindsight, I think I'd have done that. Good on both the PP and PK and likes to get physical.

It was Kulemin and Kadri.

I would have done it also.  Richards is a heck of a hockey player.  Real solid 2-ways.  Leader, center, etc.

A lot of people say whoever gets the best player wins the trade and Mike Richards is clearly the best player in the deal (cue nutman!).

the problem is it wasn't enough (according to the sun) so would you have done kadri, kulemin +?

I thought that was Burke deciding against making the deal rather than it not being enough?

I thought Kulemin and Kadri was for Carter and Richards would have cost more. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though.

I also recall Burke saying no to that deal (Carter) rather than it not being enough. I don't remember hearing the exact cost of Richards in terms of assets.

 

[Tigger]

Burke confirmed Philly asked for Schenn and Kadri for Mike Richards last summer and he declined, correct?  :-\ In hindsight, I think I'd have done that. Good on both the PP and PK and likes to get physical.

It was Kulemin and Kadri.

I would have done it also.  Richards is a heck of a hockey player.  Real solid 2-ways.  Leader, center, etc.

A lot of people say whoever gets the best player wins the trade and Mike Richards is clearly the best player in the deal (cue nutman!).

the problem is it wasn't enough (according to the sun) so would you have done kadri, kulemin +?

I thought that was Burke deciding against making the deal rather than it not being enough?

I thought Kulemin and Kadri was for Carter and Richards would have cost more. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though.

I also recall Burke saying no to that deal (Carter) rather than it not being enough. I don't remember hearing the exact cost of Richards in terms of assets.

Maybe that's it, I don't know for sure now but I recall hearing about it.

My kingdom for a source!!!

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I thought Kulemin and Kadri was for Carter and Richards would have cost more. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though.

I also recall Burke saying no to that deal (Carter) rather than it not being enough. I don't remember hearing the exact cost of Richards in terms of assets.

Philly asked for Kadri and Kulemin in exchange for Carter, and Burke said declined. After Carter was traded they offered Richards for the same package and Burke said he'd consider it this time. Philly then made the trade with LA before Burke got back to Holmgrem.

At least, that's what was speculated.

edit: Found the tweets from Dreger:

Flyers asked for Kadri and Kulemin from the Leafs for Mike Richards. Toronto said they would consider it, but never heard back from Phi.

Leafs were also interested in Carter and Kadri was discussed, but Tor wouldn't include Kulemin to close deal for Carter.

 

[Bender]

I thought Kulemin and Kadri was for Carter and Richards would have cost more. Maybe I'm remembering wrong, though.

I also recall Burke saying no to that deal (Carter) rather than it not being enough. I don't remember hearing the exact cost of Richards in terms of assets.

Philly asked for Kadri and Kulemin in exchange for Carter, and Burke said declined. After Carter was traded they offered Richards for the same package and Burke said he'd consider it this time. Philly then made the trade with LA before Burke got back to Holmgrem.

At least, that's what was speculated.

edit: Found the tweets from Dreger:

Flyers asked for Kadri and Kulemin from the Leafs for Mike Richards. Toronto said they would consider it, but never heard back from Phi.

Leafs were also interested in Carter and Kadri was discussed, but Tor wouldn't include Kulemin to close deal for Carter.

I'd do it for Mike Richards, but definitely not Jeff Carter.