R2, G5: Panthers @ Maple Leafs - May 12th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[Guilt Trip]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

His wrist is wrapped but who knows..he couldn't buy a goal in this series but I won't forget him carrying the team against TBay. Rielly was incredible and we have a goalie! And Knies!

Man I love you Guilt Trip
Your optimism jives with mine
Imagine Woll in 45 games with no Holl

End of the day/season it's hockey. Great year and hope more kids are in the lineup next season. 

 

[Deebo]

Defense and goaltending didn?t seem to be the main problem to me. We needed more scoring and leadership.

It sucks losing. Ill be 50 this year. In the 40 something years I?ve been watching we made it to the final 4 twice.

They made the final 4 in 93, 94, 99 and 02.

 

[Kin]

How did ovechkin do? Was he invisible for the most part like our stars have been for the last 4 years?

I don't agree with that assessment to begin with so it's not a standard I'll use. Ovechkin had some playoff years where his numbers were good and some where they weren't which is how I'd describe the Leafs best players.

I've seen, with my own eyes, these guys play well in the playoffs so the idea that they can't is just straight up nonsense. We're all frustrated they didn't find the back of the net this series against hot goaltending but letting that frustration override good, rational thinking is a recipe for bad moves that make the team worse.

 

[ZBBM]

It's a tough read.  One clear-eyed take is that they didn't really progress this year.  They got outplayed in both rounds.  Went a miserable 1-5 at home ? which is just mind-boggling.  Core 4 scored 1 goal in 5 games R2.

OTOH Marner, Matthews, to a lesser extent Nylander all delivered offense in R1.  The whole team matched both opponents physically IMO.  Woll got valuable experience, though truth be told I think he's got a halo effect going right now.  The first two goals tonight weren't howlers, but they could have been saved. He lost 2 out of 3 games he played in.

I think the core gets one more shot, but I would make two moves at minimum: new coach, and new captain.  One changes strategy, the other leadership.

I lean toward letting Dubas go but wouldn't be upset if they rehire him.  He pushes all the right buttons except for playoff success.  My concern is that he's too invested in the structure to make the two moves I advocate.

 

[Kin]

I think the core gets one more shot, but I would make two moves at minimum: new coach, and new captain.  One changes strategy, the other leadership.

The same coach can employ different strategies and most hockey players, when asked about leadership, say it's not dictated by who wears what letters sewn onto the front of their jerseys.

I'm not opposed to them making moves but unless there's more concrete on why the moves will yield better results those seem like change just for its own sake.

 

[Bill_Berg]

Shitty ending, but I think Dubas has done well. I hope they re-sign him and keep at least part of this core long term. It will be an interesting off season.

 

[ZBBM]

I think the core gets one more shot, but I would make two moves at minimum: new coach, and new captain.  One changes strategy, the other leadership.

The same coach can employ different strategies and most hockey players, when asked about leadership, say it's not dictated by who wears what letters sewn onto the front of their jerseys.

I'm not opposed to them making moves but unless there's more concrete on why the moves will yield better results those seem like change just for its own sake.

Keefe strikes me as not adding enough value.  I don't see anything in him that says, outstanding coach.  In playoffs past I thought he got out-coached.  This one, not really.

As for Tavares, I think the team would benefit from a captain whose temperature setting isn't so low. 

 

[azzurri63]

Not my words but I totally agree.

What went wrong?

When Toronto needed its star players most, they were nowhere to be found. That's the best explanation for how the Leafs flamed out in spectacularly cruel fashion against the Florida Panthers in just five games.

The Leafs battled past the Tampa Bay Lightning to advance for the first time in a postseason series in almost 20 years. None of that momentum carried into the second round, where Florida repeatedly punched Toronto in the gut and the Leafs kept letting it happen.

Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, John Tavares and William Nylander failed to score in the first three games vs. Florida as Toronto fell behind 3-0. By the time Nylander and Marner picked up their pace in Game 4, it was too late to salvage the Leafs' postseason.

The energy, the passion, the killer instinct Toronto showed in its first-round series was all but forgotten in Round 2. The Leafs looked tired, and often listless, and like maybe they didn't even believe in themselves. In the end, the result reflected how much effort Toronto appeared to put into its last gasp at a postseason push.

 

[Kin]

Keefe strikes me as not adding enough value.  I don't see anything in him that says, outstanding coach.  In playoffs past I thought he got out-coached.  This one, not really.

I'm not enough of an X's and O's guy to know if there's anything he actually did wrong and I'm not enough of an insider to know how he's felt about within the room. Again, I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't make a change, just that I think for that to be a real positive move I'd have to have something firmer on those grounds.

As for Tavares, I think the team would benefit from a captain whose temperature setting isn't so low. 

Again, I don't know the dressing room dynamic and can't speak to it but like I said, I generally think attaching much importance to letter wearing is misplaced and, specifically, I don't know if I'd react to the Team Captain scoring the goal that broke a 19 year drought for the team by taking something symbolic from him because he didn't have a very good second round.

But YMMV.

 

[Courtnall]

Heartless team. No guts. And no, they didn?t show up this series at all. Our top 2 lines were nearly invisible. Teams a joke. Fans defending this team are a joke. Get out of La La land, franchise is a joke. No one on that team inspires!

That being said, this was the worst officiated playoffs all around I?ve ever seen. Parros is a clown show. Refs and Parros are too involved in outcomes. Think I?m done with the NHL. 40 years of watching and this team is truly pathetic.

 

[dappleganger]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

Watch for the wrist surgery announcement.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

I can't believe so few are talking about goaltending, "IF" Bobrovsky can keep it up the Panthers will win the Cup just like Roy in 93, this is what a good goalie does for a team, guys the Panthers are not an outstanding team without Bob they don't don't beat Boston, it really is that simple, good goalies lift average teams to high levels of play,  we need a goalie, period, and to do that one of the big contracts has to go.

 

[cw]

I'm certainly disappointed. I hoped for more.
Did they underachieve? I'm not sure. Certainly did not overachieve.
I say that bearing in mind that good goaltending can scuttle any NHL team. Bobrovsky was a factor.
There is a lot of parity in the league - not as much separating the best from the playoff qualifiers as there used to be. Florida barely making the playoffs and taking out the Bruins and Leafs underscores that.

Matthews scoring 1.0 ppg in these playoffs. His career playoff ppg is .88. That is down from 1.12 ppg regular season but the vast majority see their scoring drop in the playoffs because all the lousy teams are golfing - it is harder to score. I'm having trouble accepting that as a total choke. Ditto for Marner. Still sort of collecting my thoughts. A credit to the forwards generally: they were playing defense - including Matthews & Marner. To me, the defensive record of this club is more of a credit to the forwards than the dmen or goalie. The dmen are above average - not great. The goalie - above average - not great. To me, it is the forwards commitment to defense who elevated them to be in the upper echelon of the league defensively. They have the skill to score but opted for a 200 foot game. When a forward does that, they don't light the lamp as much. I will not ignore that when assessing these playoffs. If Dallas and Edmonton get knocked out, nearly all the top ppg players in the playoffs will be golfing - a heck of a lot of them.

Is Keefe to blame? Not entirely - that's for sure. I'm not a gigantic fan of him but credit where credit is due: Keefe got these talented forwards to buy in to playing defensively hockey. As such, they're probably the best defensive Leafs team since Pat Burns - maybe better. There's no way Keefe is terrible.

Like I say, I'm still collecting my thoughts.

Two very good positives came out of it:
Knies - did amazingly well under the circumstances and he's going to get better
Woll - been impressed with him all season
Because of them, their cap situation for next season isn't as bad.

 

[cabber24]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

Watch for the wrist surgery announcement.

That whip rarely made an appearance this year. The way the puck seemed to stay on his stick a little longer through his shooting motion was visibly different. That lacrosse like shot was not there this year.

 

[L K]

The more I watch the overtime goal the more I get pissed off.  Gudas grabs Jarnkrok's stick and turns him around because of it.  It completely took away his ability to make a play.

But of course a puck over the glass is the only really penalty in the playoffs.  Not elbows to the head.  (Or a stick to the head in the Leads favour in Game 6).

The NHL sucks.  I hate that the team lost on a garbage play because Gudas and Bennett can get away with blatant charging all series.  Full marks to the Panthers for the play outside of the dirty stuff though.  They did enough to score timely goals and deserve to advance but I don't know how you fight through nonsense like this.  I'm watching the other series and this is the only one where a team is getting away with murder. 

Last night Vegas had 7 powerplays against Edmonton.  But hey Brodie deflected a puck already in the air so we have to call that. 

 

[Peter D.]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

Watch for the wrist surgery announcement.

I'm wondering if there is more to it than just his wrist.  He's skating looked slow, he looked disengaged, and he seemed unwilling to go full throttle into the corners and use that big body like he usually does.  Dare I say it, but he was pretty much damn near invisible yesterday.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Is it too late to Petard for BedardTM?

 

[rdowdall]

Defense and goaltending didn?t seem to be the main problem to me. We needed more scoring and leadership.

It sucks losing. Ill be 50 this year. In the 40 something years I?ve been watching we made it to the final 4 twice.

They've made it to the final 4 four times.  Twice with Gilmour, twice with Sundin.

Not sure if that makes you feel better though.

 

[rdowdall]

In my mind, the reason they get goalied in the playoffs is because they don't have players that can consistently get to the front of the net and take that pressure from the defense. 

To be clear, I don't think this is a toughness thing, I think it's a play style thing.  Last night their best chance in overtime was when Jarnkrok drove to the net and created some havoc.  They just need some more of that to compliment Marner, Matthews and Nylander.

I think Knies is a guy who can do that.  I think they need one or two more players that can do that, and then they will make it difficult on teams over a 7 game series.

 

[Guilt Trip]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

Watch for the wrist surgery announcement.

I'm wondering if there is more to it than just his wrist.  He's skating looked slow, he looked disengaged, and he seemed unwilling to go full throttle into the corners and use that big body like he usually does.  Dare I say it, but he was pretty much damn near invisible yesterday.

Totally disagree. 8 shots, 5 blocks, 9 hits but he was disengaged? He's looked slower since he took that slapshot off the side/back of his knee in the TBay series. I have zero issue with his effort these playoffs.