R2, G5: Panthers @ Maple Leafs - May 12th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590

[Guilt Trip]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

His wrist is wrapped but who knows..he couldn't buy a goal in this series but I won't forget him carrying the team against TBay. Rielly was incredible and we have a goalie! And Knies!

 

[Champ Kind]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me.  The winning was supposed to have happened by now.  The team is designed as an offensive powerhouse and yet, repeatedly, cannot seem to play to its strengths in rhe playoffs.  For me, something significant has to give.  Seven years of awfully similar results?.feels a lot like the Raptors before they dealt DeRozan.

 

[Omallley]

Biggest disappointment was it took Game 4 and 5 to play like they wanted it

They were pretty good in game 1 and 2. It just didn't go their way.

They had 1xbad game, that's it.

They had one bad game, which went to OT, and by the end were playing their #3 goalie(Who did everything you could want him to but it wasn't enough). They lost three one-goal games. It's a tough beat and the spark Knies gave them, to me, was a real indication of how they really do need more young talent on the team so they don't have to rely on the ZAR's and Lafferty's of the world but overall I think the team made solid progress this year and I think they've got something to build on for next season.

Winning a round is more than they've done in previous years. Lots of good to take away. Is it enough? No. We're all dissapointed and I can't imagine heads won't roll (roster and management) as a result.

But I also think you're on point re: Knies and younger players. Work to be done.

 

[Guilt Trip]

Biggest disappointment was it took Game 4 and 5 to play like they wanted it

They were pretty good in game 1 and 2. It just didn't go their way.

They had 1xbad game, that's it.

They had one bad game, which went to OT, and by the end were playing their #3 goalie(Who did everything you could want him to but it wasn't enough). They lost three one-goal games. It's a tough beat and the spark Knies gave them, to me, was a real indication of how they really do need more young talent on the team so they don't have to rely on the ZAR's and Lafferty's of the world but overall I think the team made solid progress this year and I think they've got something to build on for next season.

I agree totally. I think that's the next move roster wise. Get those kids playing with the big club. Need the fresh legs, energy.

 

[4EVRLEAFAN]

Goaltending was the difference in this series, period. 

 

[dekedastardly]

I didn't see any answer to Bennett & Gudas. I saw players afraid to wheel around because they were clearly afraid of these two. Yes hot goalie, yes leaps and bounds better in the physicality department (Acciari, McCabe), but yet still not enough.

The Leafs still have that horrible nagging habbit of backing up and off defensively, they're just mostly absolute garbage in their own end. Holl, Giordano, Brodie can go. Keep the others.

Aside from that, I don't know right now. Team needs some fresh blood in it's make up. Give Holmberg regular ice, and McMann a fair shake too. A coaching change is probably necessary too. Matthews is a bitch. The end.

 

[azzurri63]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me.  The winning was supposed to have happened by now.  The team is designed as an offensive powerhouse and yet, repeatedly, cannot seem to play to its strengths in rhe playoffs.  For me, something significant has to give.  Seven years of awfully similar results?.feels a lot like the Raptors before they dealt DeRozan.

Yep. Your bang on. It?s hard to watch your best players for the most part disappear in the playoffs. They get paid handsomely and it?s to score goals and put the puck in the net but 5 years of the same shit is enough. Time to move on with some of them. Way this team operates Matthews will walk and we?ll get nothing or they?ll give him a nice raise.

 

[Kin]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me. 

I just don't buy that. When you have core players as good as the ones the Leafs have the window is bigger and open longer than usual. Again I'll point to the Caps not winning until Ovechkin's Draft +14 year.

They might have to make some adjustments here and there but as long as the Leafs have that sort of talent around the window is open.

 

[louisstamos]

I don't think I'm as down on this team as some people are.  If you told me at the beginning of the season that they'd win a round finally, but lose in the second round in 5 games, I would consider that progress.  Yes, the goal should be to win the Stanley Cup every year, but I think like Nik has said before - so much of it is just dumb luck and circumstance.  Bobrovsky, who was borderline unusuable down the stretch going into the playoffs, has basically won two rounds after taking over from Lyon, who was boderline unusable in the first round, but was lights out during the stretch run.

That isn't to say that trades are off the table, but the Leafs shouldn't be looking to trade people for the sake of trading them.  It has to be a trade that's a win, or else it's not worthwhile.  Just keep adding good players, and at some point, they'll be good enough to win.  Remember, it took the Ovechkin/Backstrom 13 years before they won the cup.  This is year 7 of the Matthews/Marner/Nylander era.  Keep surrounding them with good players that can play that tough playoff style game - Knies looks like a keeper, and I feel like Robertson can play that way if he can ever stay healthy.  A good goalie goes a long way, and that's the part where I'm curious what the Leafs will do this offseason.  Woll looks like a keeper, so someone else has to go.  Do you trade Murray and might have to give assets?  Or just buy him out?  Do you trade Samsonov for a higher return?  Do you go after someone like Hellebuyck somehow?

Anyways, long story short - this sucks, but life goes on tomorrow.  My band is recording a record and I've got a trip to Greece to look forward to in June.  I'll be back on board in the Fall when the season starts again.

 

[Oracle]

Well it's been fun, have a great summer everybody.

 

[gunnar36]

Overall this team is just too GD soft

Said it a thousand times but funny thing is some don't think so. But each year we are always back in the same position and questioning the teams toughness. That and lack of scoring again.

How can you possibly question their toughness in this series?  They went toe to toe.  They stuffed Tkachuk pretty much.  They had all kinds of big hits.  Toughness wasn't the problem.  Scoring, or lack thereof, absolutely.

When I say toughness I mean making it difficult hitting people getting in their face at the end of plays whatever. Teams do it against us and we just take it. I'm not knocking the effort tonight but the team is easy to play against because opponents know there's nothing coming back at them. As much as I hate guys like Gudas Bennett those are the types of players you need in the playoffs. I didn't see them getting hit. Bennett still running around hitting people and hard both of them for that matter. Bennett should have been targeted after taking out Knies. That's what I'm getting at.

That bugs me as well. There was zero push back on Bennett, Gudas and Tkachuk who knew they could get away with taking runs at our star players (and anyone else). Its never a good thing when you have only one forward (Accari) who poses any kind of physical threat.

 

[Kin]

The Leafs still have that horrible nagging habbit of backing up and off defensively, they're just mostly absolute garbage in their own end. Holl, Giordano, Brodie can go. Keep the others.

They allowed 12 goals in regulation in 5 games this series. How many would a good defensive team have allowed?

 

[Highlander]

It'll be interesting to see if Matthews has been playing hurt all year.

His wrist is wrapped but who knows..he couldn't buy a goal in this series but I won't forget him carrying the team against TBay. Rielly was incredible and we have a goalie! And Knies!

Man I love you Guilt Trip
Your optimism jives with mine
Imagine Woll in 45 games with no Holl

 

[Highlander]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me.  The winning was supposed to have happened by now.  The team is designed as an offensive powerhouse and yet, repeatedly, cannot seem to play to its strengths in rhe playoffs.  For me, something significant has to give.  Seven years of awfully similar results?.feels a lot like the Raptors before they dealt DeRozan.

Our real year is 23-24 we have the entire group, Woll and Knies perhaps Topi
Don?t forget Robertson either

 

[Champ Kind]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me. 

I just don't buy that. When you have core players as good as the ones the Leafs have the window is bigger and open longer than usual. Again I'll point to the Caps not winning until Ovechkin's Draft +14 year.

They might have to make some adjustments here and there but as long as the Leafs have that sort of talent around the window is open.

All things being equal, I agree with you, Nik.  But the window is closing from a salary cap perspective.  Bunting, for instance, is a significant contributor.  He will not play in Toronto for $900k again.  Can you replace him at that salary?  Maybe Knies can get you part way but 60+ points is a pretty high bar.  Can Gio do what he did this year at $750?  Samsonov? 

The fact is Nylander and Matthews need new deals this summer.  They will not play at the rates they?re currently at.  The issue, for me, is that the salary cap environment. 

I?ll admit I?m also pretty dismayed that Matthews  seems unable to elevate his game in the playoffs the way other players of his ilk seem to do more often.  But I?m trying to be rational.

 

[azzurri63]

Overall this team is just too GD soft

Said it a thousand times but funny thing is some don't think so. But each year we are always back in the same position and questioning the teams toughness. That and lack of scoring again.

How can you possibly question their toughness in this series?  They went toe to toe.  They stuffed Tkachuk pretty much.  They had all kinds of big hits.  Toughness wasn't the problem.  Scoring, or lack thereof, absolutely.

When I say toughness I mean making it difficult hitting people getting in their face at the end of plays whatever. Teams do it against us and we just take it. I'm not knocking the effort tonight but the team is easy to play against because opponents know there's nothing coming back at them. As much as I hate guys like Gudas Bennett those are the types of players you need in the playoffs. I didn't see them getting hit. Bennett still running around hitting people and hard both of them for that matter. Bennett should have been targeted after taking out Knies. That's what I'm getting at.

That bugs me as well. There was zero push back on Bennett, Gudas and Tkachuk who knew they could get away with taking runs at our star players (and anyone else). Its never a good thing when you have only one forward (Accari) who poses any kind of physical threat.

Watching the replay of Knies getting thrown to the ice first thing I said as I did not watch the game first thing I asked was he addressed about it. Game was close as I said so no need for dumb penalties. If not them let him know next game but not this team. Rookie getting pummelled and no push back. Sadly you can make an argument he was one of or not our best player. That?s why I would have dressed Simmonds just to keep them on their toes.

 

[Kin]

All things being equal, I agree with you, Nik.  But the window is closing from a salary cap perspective.  Bunting, for instance, is a significant contributor.  He will not play in Toronto for $900k again.  Can you replace him at that salary?  Maybe Knies can get you part way but 60+ points is a pretty high bar.  Can Gio do what he did this year at $750?  Samsonov?

Maybe not but the other way to look at that is, you know, they found Bunting. They found Samsonov. They convinced Giordano to come cheap. Those exact guys might not be back at the same salary but do I think Dubas, or whoever, can't find guys along those lines? I don't see why I would considering he found them in the first place.

(and, you know, aside from Samsonov none of those guys were major contributors in the playoffs this year anyway)

The window won't be open in terms of just running back the same guys year after year but I remain pretty convinced you can find good pieces to bolster the foundation the Leafs have.

The fact is Nylander and Matthews need new deals this summer.  They will not play at the rates they?re currently at.  The issue, for me, is that the salary cap environment. 

I tend to be a "Let's cross that bridge when we get there" kind of guy when it comes to the cap. So much could happen in that regards that we can't predict that I'm not inclined to lose any sleep about consequences that will come for the 24-25 season if at all.

 

[azzurri63]

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me. 

I just don't buy that. When you have core players as good as the ones the Leafs have the window is bigger and open longer than usual. Again I'll point to the Caps not winning until Ovechkin's Draft +14 year.

They might have to make some adjustments here and there but as long as the Leafs have that sort of talent around the window is open.

All things being equal, I agree with you, Nik.  But the window is closing from a salary cap perspective.  Bunting, for instance, is a significant contributor.  He will not play in Toronto for $900k again.  Can you replace him at that salary?  Maybe Knies can get you part way but 60+ points is a pretty high bar.  Can Gio do what he did this year at $750?  Samsonov? 

The fact is Nylander and Matthews need new deals this summer.  They will not play at the rates they?re currently at.  The issue, for me, is that the salary cap environment. 

I?ll admit I?m also pretty dismayed that Matthews  seems unable to elevate his game in the playoffs the way other players of his ilk seem to do more often.  But I?m trying to be rational.

Ultimately, the window of opportunity is quickly closing and that?s what?s most disappointing to me. 

I just don't buy that. When you have core players as good as the ones the Leafs have the window is bigger and open longer than usual. Again I'll point to the Caps not winning until Ovechkin's Draft +14 year.

They might have to make some adjustments here and there but as long as the Leafs have that sort of talent around the window is open.

All things being equal, I agree with you, Nik.  But the window is closing from a salary cap perspective.  Bunting, for instance, is a significant contributor.  He will not play in Toronto for $900k again.  Can you replace him at that salary?  Maybe Knies can get you part way but 60+ points is a pretty high bar.  Can Gio do what he did this year at $750?  Samsonov? 

The fact is Nylander and Matthews need new deals this summer.  They will not play at the rates they?re currently at.  The issue, for me, is that the salary cap environment. 

I?ll admit I?m also pretty dismayed that Matthews  seems unable to elevate his game in the playoffs the way other players of his ilk seem to do more often.  But I?m trying to be rational.

Nil we haven?t always been on the same page but I will say this. You?re absolutely right regarding comparing the Leafs team to the Cap teams. It?s not easy winning a cup but to me it?s progress. What did the Caps do all those years? Get ousted in the first round year after year? How did ovechkin do? Was he invisible for the most part like our stars have been for the last 4 years? That?s what you got to look at. We haven?t won a round until this year and that could have easily changed as we weren?t the better team so it could easily have been another early exit. I?d like to see more from M&M period in the playoffs. If they were producing and we were losing I wouldn?t be so critical of them. I don?t see that changing because personally I don?t think they have what it takes to take over a series.

 

[Peter D.]

Honestly thought after the Round 1 win the Leafs were going to parade to the Cup. 

Played well in this series being close in each game.  Sucks they couldn't break through in a few of those games.  The big guns besides Rielly and Nylander were underwhelming.

I'd keep Dubas around.  But not sure Keefe is the right coach for this group.  He continually gets outcoached in the playoffs.

 

[TheMightyOdin]

Defense and goaltending didn?t seem to be the main problem to me. We needed more scoring and leadership.

It sucks losing. Ill be 50 this year. In the 40 something years I?ve been watching we made it to the final 4 twice.