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Randy Carlyle/Leaf Coach thread

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hockeyfan1 said:
Highlander said:
I guess the thing we need to discuss is whether the players of today, that have guaranteed luxury retirement happen with their first contracts, can be motivated by a coach in todays market, where mid level free agents demand multi year multi million dollar deals. What is the motivation in a 30 team league crying out for a higher level of talent.
I hate to say but with the Original 6, the players had to take summer jobs to make ends meet and because there where only 6 teams if you didnt bring your A game every day, then there where 5 guys ready to do so.  We cannot sit the Kessels, Phanuefs and Clarksons, they will just laugh at you and say "I'm Untouchable, I am Rich and that is beyond your control".
So how much do coaches really need to be blamed (and you know how I feel about Randy). 
We need someone to whom these guys can relate, we need a motivator more than a coach

Exactly.  A motivator, one who knows how to relate to today's hockey-playing athlete.  A Mike Babcock type comes to mind.

A coach AND a GM with a good hockey mind, hockey know-how, smart, sharp, with good hockey knowledge, would be a boon to this franchise once again.

I remember ex-Leaf Rick Vaive who once said, "If you make $100,000 and can't get motivated, something's wrong."

In those days, $100.000 was still considered a sizeable sum.  That was then, this is now.  Different eras, different thinking.  How do you 'motivate' someone making ten times the above-mentioned salary in these times, particularly one who plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Its funny you should mention Babcock.  He couldn't get the Ducks to win; Caryle came in and did a better job.  This guy is not a bad coach, he did win a Stanley cup after all. Moreover, he is the only coach that has got the leafs to the post season since the lockout of 2003. I don't think he will be back next year, but don't act like just a coaching change will turn things around.  If that was the case firing Wilson would have improved the make up of the team and it didn't.
 
Rebel_1812 said:
hockeyfan1 said:
Highlander said:
I guess the thing we need to discuss is whether the players of today, that have guaranteed luxury retirement happen with their first contracts, can be motivated by a coach in todays market, where mid level free agents demand multi year multi million dollar deals. What is the motivation in a 30 team league crying out for a higher level of talent.
I hate to say but with the Original 6, the players had to take summer jobs to make ends meet and because there where only 6 teams if you didnt bring your A game every day, then there where 5 guys ready to do so.  We cannot sit the Kessels, Phanuefs and Clarksons, they will just laugh at you and say "I'm Untouchable, I am Rich and that is beyond your control".
So how much do coaches really need to be blamed (and you know how I feel about Randy). 
We need someone to whom these guys can relate, we need a motivator more than a coach

Exactly.  A motivator, one who knows how to relate to today's hockey-playing athlete.  A Mike Babcock type comes to mind.

A coach AND a GM with a good hockey mind, hockey know-how, smart, sharp, with good hockey knowledge, would be a boon to this franchise once again.

I remember ex-Leaf Rick Vaive who once said, "If you make $100,000 and can't get motivated, something's wrong."

In those days, $100.000 was still considered a sizeable sum.  That was then, this is now.  Different eras, different thinking.  How do you 'motivate' someone making ten times the above-mentioned salary in these times, particularly one who plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs?

Its funny you should mention Babcock.  He couldn't get the Ducks to win; Caryle came in and did a better job.  This guy is not a bad coach, he did win a Stanley cup after all. Moreover, he is the only coach that has got the leafs to the post season since the lockout of 2003. I don't think he will be back next year, but don't act like just a coaching change will turn things around.  If that was the case firing Wilson would have improved the make up of the team and it didn't.

That's a hard one. Babcock did take the Ducks to the Stanley Cup finals with an overall record that's slightly better than Carlyle's here.

Yes Carlyle got the win after Babcock left but the team was quite different.

Anyway I guess my point is Randy hasn't had anything close to a Stanley Cup Finals appearance with the Leafs so a comparison with Babcock is a little unfair IMO.
 
Bender said:
Highlander said:
Its called "Fat Cat Syndrome" and it affects those who reach a certain if not elevated stretch of success, you work, the rewards go up, you invest in new business which take your time and energy and all of a sudden you forget what brought you to the ball. Its a mental focus and I just watched Shannohan today in the conference and was directly affected by his focus. This is a no bull#$#% no surrender fellow and believe me, that "Tings are gonna change".
By Randy?need any help with the granite slab you placed at the locker room door?  Hate to have that tied around your neck on the way down.

How does this have anything to do with motivation? That's absolutely preposterous if you ask me. It seems so disingenuous to me when you have mounds and mounds of actual data that presents the team as one that has a coach that has completely nosedived on possession and defensive systems, along with a number of players who, quite frankly, are not that good at creating any kind of offense.

Some need to go, but I really don't think it's for a lack of effort or buy in. These players aren't idiots, and didn't, as a group, just decide they collectively forgot how to play hockey.

How many players are honestly happy and not frustrated having to ride the pine if they play poorly? And how many times since before Sundin even left that the leafs lacked an identity and a strong compete level.

And you go on about money reducing motivation? Come on. If this were
true EVERY player in the league would be coasting. Ad nauseum execuspeak
is all this is. Players play for their pride and their legacy, the feeling of winning
instead of constantly getting the feeling of getting trampled on all the time.

I agree that the Leafs have lacked an identity (& character) since Sundin left.

Now,  the part about the money & motivation?  Well, let's just
say this:  many of the better as well as best players in the
league such as Crosby, Stamkos, Price, Pietrangelo, et al, all
make a gigantic amount of money playIng the game they love,
Yet in spite of the big contracts, they want to be better and top
themselves each time, season after season, whatever.  It's
pretty obvious here that many top players with huge salaries
aren't " coasting".  And it's also pretty obvious that once again,
attitudes are more important than facts.

The fact of the matter remains that many of the top players
collect sizeable paycheques, yet their level of play, their
attitudes that holds all of that is refreshing.

True that there are the coaches and management that know what they're doing with their teams, how to relate to their
players, from those behind the bench on up.  Still, it's up in the
end to the individual to have the proper capacity to elevate
themselves to what and where they want to be.

Can we say the same things about our Leafs, with the way things have gone?
 
 
Rebel_1812 said:
Its funny you should mention Babcock.  He couldn't get the Ducks to win; Caryle came in and did a better job. 

Well he did get to Game 7 of the Finals with the Ducks.

But probably signing Niedermayer and Pronger is the biggest reason the Ducks could suddenly win more games.  I mean, everywhere Pronger went towards the end of his career the teams ended up in the Stanley Cup Final.
 
Wasn't that Babcock led ducks team much less impressive overall than the one that did win? I find it more impressive that they took NJ to 7 games than the team that beat the sens in 5 or whatever it was.
 
Joe S. said:
Wasn't that Babcock led ducks team much less impressive overall than the one that did win? I find it more impressive that they took NJ to 7 games than the team that beat the sens in 5 or whatever it was.

IIRC, Giguere pretty much dragged them to the Finals.
 
Potvin29 said:
Joe S. said:
Wasn't that Babcock led ducks team much less impressive overall than the one that did win? I find it more impressive that they took NJ to 7 games than the team that beat the sens in 5 or whatever it was.

IIRC, Giguere pretty much dragged them to the Finals.

That was the year I jokingly said the Ducks were going to win the Stanley Cup before the playoffs.
 
The point is the coach is brought in to create systems that are the blueprints that teams play by and motivate the team to buy into the system. Perhaps the players are not the proper players to execute Carlyles system, they seem to thrive on the run and gun system instead what Randy was trying to bring to the table. The fact of the matter is if the coach cannot get the existing players to execute or be motivated to adopt to the system then that coach is history, as Randy is about to be. Whether this is right or wrong, as Shanahan said yesterday "Winning is the simple solution", so now the job is to find the proper coach/motivator and system for this group of players.. May as well harness the horses we have in a way to make the wagon work better.
 
BrownRolo said:
RedLeaf said:
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050  6m
Randy Carlyle will meet with the media at 12:30 today.

So he isn't getting fired? Or will he resign? Seems strange he will meet with the media.

It's typical end of the season stuff. Don't read anything into it.
 
bustaheims said:
BrownRolo said:
RedLeaf said:
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050  6m
Randy Carlyle will meet with the media at 12:30 today.

So he isn't getting fired? Or will he resign? Seems strange he will meet with the media.

It's typical end of the season stuff. Don't read anything into it.

But why drag him out there if they are going to fire him? Just fire this guy already!
 
BrownRolo said:
But why drag him out there if they are going to fire him? Just fire this guy already!

He'd be meeting with the press either way and answering basically the same set of questions, so, what's the difference? They haven't officially decided to fire him yet, so, he has to fulfill his duties until they do.
 
BrownRolo said:
RedLeaf said:
Jonas Siegel ‏@jonasTSN1050  6m
Randy Carlyle will meet with the media at 12:30 today.

So he isn't getting fired? Or will he resign? Seems strange he will meet with the media.

When has a coach ever resigned? Other than for health reasons?
 
Rebel_1812 said:
Its funny you should mention Babcock.  He couldn't get the Ducks to win; Caryle came in and did a better job.  This guy is not a bad coach, he did win a Stanley cup after all. Moreover, he is the only coach that has got the leafs to the post season since the lockout of 2003. I don't think he will be back next year, but don't act like just a coaching change will turn things around.  If that was the case firing Wilson would have improved the make up of the team and it didn't.

For the record, Babcock coached the Ducks to the finals with no Pronger or Neidermeyer on the team.
 
Corn Flake said:
Rebel_1812 said:
Its funny you should mention Babcock.  He couldn't get the Ducks to win; Caryle came in and did a better job.  This guy is not a bad coach, he did win a Stanley cup after all. Moreover, he is the only coach that has got the leafs to the post season since the lockout of 2003. I don't think he will be back next year, but don't act like just a coaching change will turn things around.  If that was the case firing Wilson would have improved the make up of the team and it didn't.

For the record, Babcock coached the Ducks to the finals with no Pronger or Neidermeyer on the team.

Also, saying Carlyle is the only one to get the Leafs to the playoffs - well, in game 48 of Wilson's last season, and this season, the Leafs would have made the playoffs.  But both times those pesky 82 game seasons....what are the odds they buck that trend for some reason last year?  Probably not that good.
 
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