Rasmus Sandin

[azzurri63]

40 points for a defenseman isn't hard to achieve? Only 30 defensemen in the entire league reached that mark last year. I'd be extremely happy if he became a consistent 40 pointer as that'd mean he was most likely a top pairing d-man.

Yeah. There are a lot of good defensemen who don't regularly hit that mark. Parayko hasn't despite regular PP time. Ditto Slavin. Chara's only hit it once in the last 8 years, Ekholm's only done it once in his career, McDonagh's been hit or miss at it his whole career...

Regularly scoring 40+ points as a defenseman is elite offensive territory.

None of the guys you mentioned play 1st PP minutes. Parayko averages :30 seconds of PP time a game. Slavin :11 seconds. McDonaugh :06 seconds. Chara :03 seconds.
Sorry Nik but your examples aren't the best.
40 points isn't hard to hit if you're on the 1st or 2nd pairing.
Man we have been harping about Barrie all year and Reilly's horrible season and both of them are sitting at 27 points. Muzzin had 37 points last year and I definitely don't consider him to be an offensive defensemen.

Guys like Hughes for Vancouver can quarterback a PP. Sandin I think can do the same.
Won't be long depending on what Dubas does (FA signings) that he is running the Leafs PP. Won't probably be this year but don't think next is out of the question.

If it?s not ?hard to hit if you're on the 1st or 2nd pairing,? why have no more than 30 guys put 40+ points in any of the last 5 seasons? If it really wasn?t difficult, the average season would definitely produce an average higher than the recent less than one per team.

How many defenseman in the league play 1st PP minutes? Holy.
Only probably 1 per team. Do the math 30 teams. Most of the guys you see hit that play 1st PP minutes.
All I'm saying is if you are one of those guys it's not difficult to do.
Go down the list of the leading scorers for defenseman last year and tell me who in the top 25 didn't play 1st PP minutes.
The odd team like SJ where you have Burns and Karlsson that can both play 1st PP minutes.
Most teams I think use 1 D man on the PP.

Man you have 2 rookies Makar and Hughes who are almost at that at the all star game.

 

[Kin]

None of the guys you mentioned play 1st PP minutes. Parayko averages :30 seconds of PP time a game. Slavin :11 seconds. McDonaugh :06 seconds. Chara :03 seconds.

You should probably try reading what I wrote again and give it another try.

 

[bustaheims]

How many defenseman in the league play 1st PP minutes? Holy.
Only probably 1 per team. Do the math 30 teams. Most of the guys you see hit that play 1st PP minutes.
All I'm saying is if you are one of those guys it's not difficult to do.
Go down the list of the leading scorers for defenseman last year and tell me who in the top 25 didn't play 1st PP minutes.
The odd team like SJ where you have Burns and Karlsson that can both play 1st PP minutes.
Most teams I think use 1 D man on the PP.

Man you have 2 rookies Makar and Hughes who are almost at that at the all star game.

These were your exact words:

"40 points isn't hard to hit if you're on the 1st or 2nd pairing."

That's more than 30 guys. Significantly, in fact.

Now, you're just moving the fence posts to be closer to something that you think works for your argument. Thing is, it doesn't really. If, on average, less than 1 defencemen per team hits the 40 point plateau, it's not easy, nor is it something we should expect of Sandin. 9 teams in the league didn't have a guy who got there last season. A lot of very good offensive defencemen who do get significant PP time don't get there on a regular basis. There's a reason 40 points is used as a benchmark - it represents a real accomplishment for that player.

 

[Kin]

Saying something is easy so long as you become a top 4 defenseman who runs a powerplay is really just a longer way of saying it's not easy.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Saying something is easy so long as you become a top 4 defenseman who runs a powerplay is really just a longer way of saying it's not easy.

Top unit powerplay too. Easy-peasy.

 

[Kin]

Top unit powerplay too.

Well, that's what it is now. First it was any pp time:

Think you're cutting him short. 40 points isn't hard to achieve especially if you see any PP time. I think he can hit that no problem.

Then it was Lemon Squeezy for the top 4:

40 points isn't hard to hit if you're on the 1st or 2nd pairing.

Then, shortly thereafter, it became running the top PP and easiness all around:

Most of the guys you see hit that play 1st PP minutes.
All I'm saying is if you are one of those guys it's not difficult to do.

What will it be next time? Easy for Swedes with 12 letters in their name? Easy for 1st round picks? Easy if you set your mind to it? Tune in next week for another exciting episode of Azzurri Desperately Shifting the Goalposts!

 

[bustaheims]

Saying something is easy so long as you become a top 4 defenseman who runs a powerplay is really just a longer way of saying it's not easy.

Basically, yeah. It also minimizes just how productive they need to be outside the PP to hit 40 points. Only 23 defencemen had at least 15 PP points last season - including 2 who didn't hit 40 points. The season before - 28, including 4 who didn't hit 40 points. The numbers are similar if you go back further. So, yeah, the guys who put up really big PP point totals generally hit 40 relatively easily - but, that's because they're generally exceptional offensive defencemen. There's maybe 15 of those guys in the league who you can count on for significant production every season. Everyone else? Big PP minutes or not, 40 points is a substantial accomplishment.

 

[Bullfrog]

What will it be next time? Easy for Swedes with 12 letters in their name? Easy for 1st round picks? Easy if you set your mind to it? Tune in next week for another exciting episode of Azzurri Desperately Shifting the Goalposts!

The truly elite players have mastered the art of subtle telekinesis. But, it's not really that hard to do, really, if you think about it.

 

[Highlander]

What will it be next time? Easy for Swedes with 12 letters in their name? Easy for 1st round picks? Easy if you set your mind to it? Tune in next week for another exciting episode of Azzurri Desperately Shifting the Goalposts!

The truly elite players have mastered the art of subtle telekinesis. But, it's not really that hard to do, really, if you think about it.

May help if they trade in their hockey sticks for divining rods.

 

[ZBBM]

Don't let these jokers get you down, azzurri.  I think it'll be easy for Sandin to get 40 points a season once he's here full time.  This guy is a hybrid of Salming & Kaberle with the firepower of Bryan McCabe.

If he gets 'er going next season I might ? just might ? change my avatar.

 

[Hobbes]

Since the 1917-18 season, only 128 defencemen TOTAL have managed to average 0.5 points per game (min. 150 careers games played and looking at P/g because seasons haven't always been 82 games). Note that this total includes those who played both forward and defence as long as they at some point were labeled "D" during their career. It's not very common now, but back in the pre-70's there were a number who did.

There are currently 28 active defencemen in the NHL who are on pace for a career average of 82. Rielly (0.52) is on that list...barely. Barrie (0.63) is too, though of course he did it mostly with Colorado. Both are on pace to just squeak by that mark this season.

Having a single 40-point season might not be out of reach for a larger percentage of players, but doing it with any consistency is asking quite a lot. Calling it "easy" for anyone not named Orr or Coffey is probably a bit of a stretch.

 

[herman]

https://twitter.com/HardevLad/status/1219669522812231680

 

[ZBBM]

Should have kept him the whole season.  But better late than later.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

Should have kept him the whole season.  But better late than later.

Which LHD should the Leafs have been scratching him for?

 

[Highlander]

Should have kept him the whole season.  But better late than later.

Which LHD should the Leafs have been scratching him for?

It's a bit academic as he wouldn't have been called up without the injuries to Muzzin and Rielly. If they weren't injured, then he probably would be with the Marlies. 
Hypothetically we could move Dermott to the right side as he probably has the skill to make the move but that would facilitate moving Ceci out of the lineup and at 4.5M I just don't see that happening, or a trade for Barrie at this point.  Certainly without further D injuries to the Right side, I don't see where Liljegren fits in right now.

 

[Hobbes]

Should have kept him the whole season.  But better late than later.

Which LHD should the Leafs have been scratching him for?

It's a bit academic as he wouldn't have been called up without the injuries to Muzzin and Rielly. If they weren't injured, then he probably would be with the Marlies. 
Hypothetically we could move Dermott to the right side as he probably has the skill to make the move but that would facilitate moving Ceci out of the lineup and at 4.5M I just don't see that happening, or a trade for Barrie at this point.  Certainly without further D injuries to the Right side, I don't see where Liljegren fits in right now.

Even if it was only ~2.5 months (and a trip to the WJT) his development was still probably better served than spending the same time as a scratch or <10min/night guy under Babcock. With the new circumstances of Rielly's injury, Sandin ought to get more meaningful minutes and some PP2 time which will benefit him and he's the club's best replacement option to help fill in that gaping new (extra) hole on D. The timing just wasn't right for him back in October.

 

[bustaheims]

Even if it was only ~2.5 months (and a trip to the WJT) his development was still probably better served than spending the same time as a scratch or <10min/night guy under Babcock. With the new circumstances of Rielly's injury, Sandin ought to get more meaningful minutes and some PP2 time which will benefit him and he's the club's best replacement option to help fill in that gaping new (extra) hole on D. The timing just wasn't right for him back in October.

Absolutely. If nothing else, playing such a prominent role for Sweden at the WJC might have been the most significant thing available for his development this season. He dominated, and brought that confidence back with him. He wouldn?t have had that playing 3rd pairing minutes under Babcock.

 

[Kin]

I think it's fair to have questions about bringing up Sandin and Liljegren now vs. earlier but realistically we're talking about a pretty minor difference in the team's fortunes either way.

 

[ZBBM]

Should have kept him the whole season.  But better late than later.

Which LHD should the Leafs have been scratching him for?

Marincin.  And I rather like Marty the Onion.

Or that other LHD, Ceci.

 

[ZBBM]

Even if it was only ~2.5 months (and a trip to the WJT) his development was still probably better served than spending the same time as a scratch or <10min/night guy under Babcock. With the new circumstances of Rielly's injury, Sandin ought to get more meaningful minutes and some PP2 time which will benefit him and he's the club's best replacement option to help fill in that gaping new (extra) hole on D. The timing just wasn't right for him back in October.

Absolutely. If nothing else, playing such a prominent role for Sweden at the WJC might have been the most significant thing available for his development this season. He dominated, and brought that confidence back with him. He wouldn?t have had that playing 3rd pairing minutes under Babcock.

This gets repeated over and over, but is there any statistical or other verifiable evidence for it?  In the absence of any, I don't buy it.  Sounds like the conventional wisdom of a bunch of conventional hockey pundits.