Relocation. Relocation. Relocation.

[hap_leaf]

Personally I would welcome the alternative to going to downtown Toronto.  I don't want to smell the Don river; I want clean air.  I don't want to pay $20 for parking; I don't want to take my kids on the subway.

Markham/Unionville is beautiful by comparison.  I'd definately choose to see a show or sporting event there.  I'm sure there are others living west of Milton that would agree.  I would park at Markville mall early, do some shopping and then take the bus to the event.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

I'd be a Bills fan. * shudders * 

Hey, leave the Bills outta this!

 

[Kin]

No, not surrounding area by any means. And I understand the appeal to you in having a rink closer to Newmarket. I'd guess it would be no more out of your pocket in taxes either?

If it's out of the city of Markham's pocket, no. Not at all.

Well, then I can see why you would be so supportive of Markham building it.

Nothing spends quite as easy as other people's money.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

No, not surrounding area by any means. And I understand the appeal to you in having a rink closer to Newmarket. I'd guess it would be no more out of your pocket in taxes either?

If it's out of the city of Markham's pocket, no. Not at all.

Well, then I can see why you would be so supportive of Markham building it.

Nothing spends quite as easy as other people's money.

Yup, nothing like a tenth of the population paying to make the other 90%'s life easier.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Dunno if this was asked yet as I didn't read the whole thread.  But, how many of you would cheer for a new Toronto NHL team if there were one?  Would you still be Leafs fans or switch over completely?

There's so many marketing principles involved in why the vast majority of Leaf fans wouldn't switch allegiances it's mind boggling.

It would however give casual hockey fans/non-Leafs fans who just happen to live in the area a place to go and watch (presumably) affordable hockey though, so there's that.

I've thought about this and I've come to the conclusion that I might be only a third of the whole equation. I mean, there's;

1. Me.
2. The Leafs and what they do to keep my allegiance.
3. The newer/closer team and what they do to pull me away.

I've also wondered if it would be possible to suppost two teams in such close proximity and while I think that might be possible at first, something would eventually have to give.

Well, if a team like the Islanders should ever relocate here...then well, um, er, ah....that'd be nice....er, I mean...

 

[rdowdall]

Dunno if this was asked yet as I didn't read the whole thread.  But, how many of you would cheer for a new Toronto NHL team if there were one?  Would you still be Leafs fans or switch over completely?

There's so many marketing principles involved in why the vast majority of Leaf fans wouldn't switch allegiances it's mind boggling.

It would however give casual hockey fans/non-Leafs fans who just happen to live in the area a place to go and watch (presumably) affordable hockey though, so there's that.

I've thought about this and I've come to the conclusion that I might be only a third of the whole equation. I mean, there's;

1. Me.
2. The Leafs and what they do to keep my allegiance.
3. The newer/closer team and what they do to pull me away.

I've also wondered if it would be possible to suppost two teams in such close proximity and while I think that might be possible at first, something would eventually have to give.

Well, if a team like the Islanders should ever relocate here...then well, um, er, ah....that'd be nice....er, I mean...

Maybe that's what Burke meant when he said Toronto was going after Tavares?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

No, not surrounding area by any means. And I understand the appeal to you in having a rink closer to Newmarket. I'd guess it would be no more out of your pocket in taxes either?

If it's out of the city of Markham's pocket, no. Not at all.

Well, then I can see why you would be so supportive of Markham building it.

Nothing spends quite as easy as other people's money.

Yup, nothing like a tenth of the population paying to make the other 90%'s life easier.

This relates to publicly-funded arenas how....

 

[OldTimeHockey]

No, not surrounding area by any means. And I understand the appeal to you in having a rink closer to Newmarket. I'd guess it would be no more out of your pocket in taxes either?

If it's out of the city of Markham's pocket, no. Not at all.

Well, then I can see why you would be so supportive of Markham building it.

Nothing spends quite as easy as other people's money.

Yup, nothing like a tenth of the population paying to make the other 90%'s life easier.

This relates to publicly-funded arenas how....

Markham tax payers are going to pay for the thing.

 

[maplesyrup]

Not sure if it matters but they're paying half.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

Not sure if it matters but they're paying half.

Half, the whole thing, a quarter...it doesn't matter much.

If the tax payers in Markham want the thing, they have noone to blame but themselves.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

No, not surrounding area by any means. And I understand the appeal to you in having a rink closer to Newmarket. I'd guess it would be no more out of your pocket in taxes either?

If it's out of the city of Markham's pocket, no. Not at all.

Well, then I can see why you would be so supportive of Markham building it.

Nothing spends quite as easy as other people's money.

Yup, nothing like a tenth of the population paying to make the other 90%'s life easier.

This relates to publicly-funded arenas how....

Markham tax payers are going to pay for the thing.

Ahh, still don't really understand what you mean by that making 90% of other people's lives easier.

 

[Kin]

Ahh, still don't really understand what you mean by that making 90% of other people's lives easier.

Just a guess but Sarge has argued that this arena would make it easier for a lot of people to see games/concerts despite not living in markham. So I'm guessing the 90% represents the percentage of people who might go to this new arena who aren't from Markham and therefore aren't paying for it.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Ahh in that respect.  That makes more sense.  I was taking it to mean make life easier in general or something.

 

[TimKerr]

Ahh, still don't really understand what you mean by that making 90% of other people's lives easier.

Just a guess but Sarge has argued that this arena would make it easier for a lot of people to see games/concerts despite not living in markham. So I'm guessing the 90% represents the percentage of people who might go to this new arena who aren't from Markham and therefore aren't paying for it.

The thing about that though is that who is to say that concerts and events will even happen at this Markham arena? I'm assuming the ACC and Rogers Centre have exclusive agreements with the promoters for the GTA and when big name acts come to town they play at the ACC.

If there is insane demand what usually happens is they just add another show to the ACC. I don't see the ACC and their owners, Rogers and Bell, giving up their revenue so that concerts can happen in Markham so people can have an easier commute.

That is why this whole thing just seems so risky. Unless there are licensing agreements in place and other tenants (such as an NHL team) to fill the arena, then they are just building it using taxpayer money in the hopes that maybe some time down the road they can use it for concerts and sports. Just seems like an insane proposition to me.

 

[maplesyrup]

I have a hard time believing they are building this place without some plan to fill it.

 

[Kin]

Preaching to the choir on that one Mr. Kerr. While the new arena could compete for events that aren't exclusive or pay a ton to get some bands to make extra stops it doesn't strike me as a good plan.

Like I said, if it was a money making proposition then private industry wouldn't need to wait for public funding.

 

[TimKerr]

I have a hard time believing they are building this place without some plan to fill it.

Perhaps. But if public money is being used to build it, the 'Business Case' would be part of public record.
I'm sure we could take a look and find this 'Business Case' with all the licensing Agreements mentioned that would allow all these big-name acts to play Markham in addition to playing downtown Toronto.

 

[Guru Tugginmypuddah]

Since the arena falls within the Leafs 50 Mile exclusive zone, what would it cost to move a NHL team to Markham?  Would the Leafs even consider letting that happen?  Could they uphold their veto?

 

[Kin]

It's important to keep in mind that they aren't building the place just yet. It's a proposal right now that hasn't gotten through Markham city council. They might have a plan but it might be a crappy plan that gets rejected.

 

[maplesyrup]

Since the arena falls within the Leafs 50 Mile exclusive zone, what would it cost to move a NHL team to Markham?  Would the Leafs even consider letting that happen?  Could they uphold their veto?

Good questions.