Schenn's Next deal

[pnjunction]

I don't see Schenn in that light, I think he is going to get better and shore up his game when he figures the whole NHL game out.

Almost 300 games and still hasn't figured out not to leave the puck behind?  There's nothing to 'figure out' on a play like that, it's a bonehead mistake at any level.  The concern is that those plays never stop coming.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I don't see Schenn in that light, I think he is going to get better and shore up his game when he figures the whole NHL game out.

Almost 300 games and still hasn't figured out not to leave the puck behind?  There's nothing to 'figure out' on a play like that, it's a bonehead mistake at any level.  The concern is that those plays never stop coming.

Right, he made a mistake, took responsibility for it, so let's move on. You are acting like he does it all the time. It's amazing how mistakes get magnified in this market. The best players in the world make mistakes, that's reality.

 

[Etiam Vultus]

Teams that challenge consistently for the Stanley Cup have established a culture where players take less on their contract than they could get elsewhere in order to leave cap space for other good players.  The best example is Detroit, although New Jersey (prior to Kovalchuk) is another.

Teams that are consistently at the bottom of the league, or in less attractive locations, have to overpay to get players.  (See Edmonton, Columbus.)

Toronto has a history of overpaying.  Part of this is because they can afford to.  Another reason is the fans and media having a hissy fit if a fan favourite is not signed.  (See Luke Schenn, circa fall of 2011.)

Schenn and his agent played hardball last summer and ended up with a contract that I believed was at the very top end of the range based on his play last season.  Based on his play this season, he is significantly overpaid. 

Burke and company have a dilemma.  The team is not good enough yet to attract elite free agents who want to play for a Stanley Cup contender.  If they continue to overpay for players that are less than elite, they will never have the cap space to develop a Stanley Cup contender. 

I thought that the Liles contract was interesting.  I am convinced that he could have gotten significantly more on the open market this summer.  Has there been another time in recent memory when a Leaf player gave a home town discount?  It will be interesting if Grabovski does as well.

The Leafs have to stop overpaying for free agents.  But they also have to start looking at trading players, like Schenn, when their contract demands are more than what they are worth.

 

[hockeyfan1]

Teams that challenge consistently for the Stanley Cup have established a culture where players take less on their contract than they could get elsewhere in order to leave cap space for other good players.  The best example is Detroit, although New Jersey (prior to Kovalchuk) is another.

Teams that are consistently at the bottom of the league, or in less attractive locations, have to overpay to get players.  (See Edmonton, Columbus.)

Toronto has a history of overpaying.  Part of this is because they can afford to.  Another reason is the fans and media having a hissy fit if a fan favourite is not signed.  (See Luke Schenn, circa fall of 2011.)

Schenn and his agent played hardball last summer and ended up with a contract that I believed was at the very top end of the range based on his play last season.  Based on his play this season, he is significantly overpaid. 

Burke and company have a dilemma.  The team is not good enough yet to attract elite free agents who want to play for a Stanley Cup contender.  If they continue to overpay for players that are less than elite, they will never have the cap space to develop a Stanley Cup contender. 

I thought that the Liles contract was interesting.  I am convinced that he could have gotten significantly more on the open market this summer.  Has there been another time in recent memory when a Leaf player gave a home town discount?  It will be interesting if Grabovski does as well.

The Leafs have to stop overpaying for free agents.  But they also have to start looking at trading players, like Schenn, when their contract demands are more than what they are worth.

Agree! 

 

[bbt]

Game after game this guy continues to disappoint and make bone head plays.  Over plays the puck, missed assignments, pylon plays, on and on.  RC better reduce this guys playing time or he is good for 2 goals a game for the opposition.  He has had enough time to proof himself and hasn't......time to move on.......

 

[Zee]

Game after game this guy continues to disappoint and make bone head plays.  Over plays the puck, missed assignments, pylon plays, on and on.  RC better reduce this guys playing time or he is good for 2 goals a game for the opposition.  He has had enough time to proof himself and hasn't......time to move on.......

Move on ?  He is only 22 and for the first time has a coach who stresses defense.  I'd like to see how he can progress under the tutelage of Carlyle and Farrish before we ship him out.

 

[L K]

I'm starting to think there might be a fundamental flaw in his game that is going to prevent him from becoming an elite defensive defenseman but I think it is way too early to give up on his career in general.

 

[BlueWhiteBlood]

I'm starting to think there might be a fundamental flaw in his game that is going to prevent him from becoming an elite defensive defenseman but I think it is way too early to give up on his career in general.

While I kind of agree with your first point, I do think that our new coach is maybe in a better position to make the answer more definitive.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

I'm starting to think there might be a fundamental flaw in his game that is going to prevent him from becoming an elite defensive defenseman but I think it is way too early to give up on his career in general.

While I kind of agree with your first point, I do think that our new coach is maybe in a better position to make the answer more definitive.

Schenn played 3 shifts in the 3rd yesterday. The coach has a lot of work to do.

 

[bbt]

A coach can?t make them what they?re not.  You have to bring individual skills to the game; coaches will channel that into teaching tactical and strategic team play, but you need the players with the skill to make that part of it successfull.  Yes, he is only 22, but making $4m plus, you got to expect a lot lot more than your getting in return on the ice.....obviously the new coaches already see the ice time value.....

 

[hockeyfan1]

Found this..

From: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/03/stellicktricity-schenn-begins-again.html

Rumours of a conflict between ex-Leaf coach Ron Wilson and defenceman Luke Schenn were confirmed to me by someone close to Schenn. Give Schenn and his handlers credit for keeping it quiet but the prize young defenceman and Wilson definitely had not seen eye to eye for awhile. He is looking forward to the new regime. 

 

[pnjunction]

Hah I imagine Wilson might not be the biggest Schenn fan either that atrocious giveaway against Florida definitely helped Wilson lose his job (along with many many other bad plays).

Well I guess we could take this as a positive sign that Schenn can improve under Carlyle, but there is clearly lots of work to do.

You know I can't help but think old Teflon Ron might still get some vindication in the end if guys like Schenn, Komi and Phaneuf just keep on blowing plays under Carlyle.  I don't think it happens though, I think/hope the team looks different next year.

 

[Bender]

Hah I imagine Wilson might not be the biggest Schenn fan either that atrocious giveaway against Florida definitely helped Wilson lose his job (along with many many other bad plays).

Well I guess we could take this as a positive sign that Schenn can improve under Carlyle, but there is clearly lots of work to do.

You know I can't help but think old Teflon Ron might still get some vindication in the end if guys like Schenn, Komi and Phaneuf just keep on blowing plays under Carlyle.  I don't think it happens though, I think/hope the team looks different next year.

In terms of play or personnel? Because I think the only Cup we'll be winning with them is the kind you use to protect your important areas.

 

[cw]

Found this..

From: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/03/stellicktricity-schenn-begins-again.html

Rumours of a conflict between ex-Leaf coach Ron Wilson and defenceman Luke Schenn were confirmed to me by someone close to Schenn. Give Schenn and his handlers credit for keeping it quiet but the prize young defenceman and Wilson definitely had not seen eye to eye for awhile. He is looking forward to the new regime. 

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

 

[Corn Flake]

Found this..

From: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2012/03/stellicktricity-schenn-begins-again.html

Rumours of a conflict between ex-Leaf coach Ron Wilson and defenceman Luke Schenn were confirmed to me by someone close to Schenn. Give Schenn and his handlers credit for keeping it quiet but the prize young defenceman and Wilson definitely had not seen eye to eye for awhile. He is looking forward to the new regime. 

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

For sure.  There are guys who probably loved Wilson and delivered for him who may do a complete 180 with Carlyle.  It happens. 

It is a bit interesting that similar players.. Schenn and Komi.. seemed to struggle under Wilson, although Schenn certainly had many bright moments over the last 3.75 years, the consistency wasn't there.  Last year there was a story about Komi having a few rather loud exchanges with Tim Hunter, one where he chucked at water bottle and Hunter made him go get it.. or something like that.

I don't think I would call Wilson's style "run and gun" at all, but the less fleet of foot d-men both were not able to establish consistency.  At this point, its an observation to watch and see if it changes under the new coach.

 

[Kin]

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

I'm not super interested in beating up on a guy after he's been fired but I reason I wouldn't be inclined to brush this off with "well, all coaches have guys who don't like them" is that Schenn was a very, very important prospect. Maybe the most important prospect the Leafs had drafted in 20 years. A lot of the team's hopes were packaged around building him into the cornerstone of the defense.

The fact that Schenn's progress hasn't been what we'd all have hoped can't be entirely put at Wilson's feet but getting through to Schenn and developing him was one of the most important tasks Wilson had in his time at coach. The fact that he was unable to get Schenn to where we'd all want is definitely one of the reasons he's not here any more.

 

[Boston Leaf]

One thng no coach can really teach Luke is foot speed. Somethign he lacks big time. But they can possibly help him compensate for it

 

[cw]

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

I'm not super interested in beating up on a guy after he's been fired but I reason I wouldn't be inclined to brush this off with "well, all coaches have guys who don't like them" is that Schenn was a very, very important prospect. Maybe the most important prospect the Leafs had drafted in 20 years. A lot of the team's hopes were packaged around building him into the cornerstone of the defense.

The fact that Schenn's progress hasn't been what we'd all have hoped can't be entirely put at Wilson's feet but getting through to Schenn and developing him was one of the most important tasks Wilson had in his time at coach. The fact that he was unable to get Schenn to where we'd all want is definitely one of the reasons he's not here any more.

Even there, the guy is still quite young. The defensive part of the game seems to take the longest for young dmen to develop. Many guys are just showing up in the NHL at this age. Schenn has the best +/- among the dmen. He's been inconsistent as young dmen his age often are - but not absolutely horrible.

Is Schenn's inconsistent play due to how Wilson coached him? Maybe some but a bunch of his errors reside with Schenn himself - they're errors Wilson would not have told him to make, etc. They're often 25 or so when they round into a more reliable dman defensively.

Wilson got fired very largely because of his won/loss record. If there was a problem with Schenn, I doubt it was a major factor. If Wilson qualified for the playoffs and had major problems with Schenn, he'd still be coaching the Leafs.

As Boston Leaf points out, Luke isn't quick. So for example, he has to learn when to pinch and when not to pinch. I can't believe Wilson's given him horrible advice on that and therefore, that's responsible for his bad pinches. To some extent, he has to learn from experience like all the young guys do.

For the most part, I think Wilson's club tried their best for him - including Luke.

 

[Mikhail Bloodnovsky]

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

I'm not super interested in beating up on a guy after he's been fired but I reason I wouldn't be inclined to brush this off with "well, all coaches have guys who don't like them" is that Schenn was a very, very important prospect. Maybe the most important prospect the Leafs had drafted in 20 years. A lot of the team's hopes were packaged around building him into the cornerstone of the defense.

The fact that Schenn's progress hasn't been what we'd all have hoped can't be entirely put at Wilson's feet but getting through to Schenn and developing him was one of the most important tasks Wilson had in his time at coach. The fact that he was unable to get Schenn to where we'd all want is definitely one of the reasons he's not here any more.

Dunno how much I buy that. I heard people in the media praise Wilson's work with Schenn when he was good in his rookie season and last year. The guy yo-yos because he is very young. It's expected.

 

[Zee]

How does it go? A third of the team loves the coach, a third hates him and a third are in between?

I'm sure Schenn isn't the only one. Komisarek is probably not far behind him. And others. But it's pretty normal. And for those guys, who can say Wilson didn't have some sort of a decent case with their consistency?

I'm not super interested in beating up on a guy after he's been fired but I reason I wouldn't be inclined to brush this off with "well, all coaches have guys who don't like them" is that Schenn was a very, very important prospect. Maybe the most important prospect the Leafs had drafted in 20 years. A lot of the team's hopes were packaged around building him into the cornerstone of the defense.

The fact that Schenn's progress hasn't been what we'd all have hoped can't be entirely put at Wilson's feet but getting through to Schenn and developing him was one of the most important tasks Wilson had in his time at coach. The fact that he was unable to get Schenn to where we'd all want is definitely one of the reasons he's not here any more.

Dunno how much I buy that. I heard people in the media praise Wilson's work with Schenn when he was good in his rookie season and last year. The guy yo-yos because he is very young. It's expected.

He was good in his rookie season cause Wilson hadn't polluted him yet.