So the debate begins: Matthews vs. Laine

[crazyperfectdevil]

i'd agree with that.  That I'm pretty sure it's Matthews but this does make the worlds more interesting and almost in an infinitely better way then we would have already been interested in the worlds when drafting second.  Like we're window shopping prospects.

 

[Andy007]

I love it. Ask for peoples' opinion and then criticize them for not having the basis or knowledge to give said opinion.

Anyway the guides I looked at here:

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/4/30/11541984/average-rankings-of-the-top-12-prospects-heading-into-the-2016-nhl-draft-scouting-profiles-ranks

all had Matthews going 1st. And two of the seven had Laine going 3rd. Seems to me like it's a pretty one-sided debate. But then again, I haven't watched much of either player so who the hell knows what any of this means. Wendel, help!

 

[Frank E]

Komarov ? Stamkos ? Kadri
Hyman ? Nylander ? Soshnikov
Leipsic ? Matthews -  Brown
Greening ? Laich ? Marner
Michalek - Leivo

Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner ? Zaitsev
Hunwick - Carrick
Harrington ? Loov - Corrado

 

[L K]

Your point?

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

But then again, you're the one staying up to watch HZ Zurich games, not me.

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews. Either way, I now remember why this site is so damn boring now.

See you at the next draft or something.

So your argument is discussion is stupid.  This place is boring because someone brought up a discussion point that you don't like.  Get the stick out of your ass.

 

[Bullfrog]

I think it's an interesting question, though somewhat arbitrary: clearly either would be a good choice.

I think it's the time to go with the "safe" choice though. Yes, while Laine is now being talked about as a possible #1 but a few scouts, he's also been slipping between 2/3. Matthews, until very recently, has been 1 and only 1 and all we have is one article where a reporter states that 2 of 10 scouts might have Laine as 1.

Go with the consensus: take Matthews. There should still be debate, obviously, but I'm confident Auston Matthews will be a Leaf.

 

[Andy007]

Your point?

That all any of us are going by is what scouts are saying and what scouts seem to be saying is the exact opposite of "there is no debate". I'm happy and not at all defensive to admit I've watched no more of either guy than a few WJC games. 

But then again, you're the one staying up to watch HZ Zurich games, not me.

Yeah, so I'm not seeing the point of the thread when you've said yourself that you'd pick Matthews. Either way, I now remember why this site is so damn boring now.

See you at the next draft or something.

So your argument is discussion is stupid.  This place is boring because someone brought up a discussion point that you don't like.  Get the stick out of your ass.

He contributed to the discussion with a normal response until he was met with snide comments, something that seems to happen here with increasing frequency. I really don't get why some people get called out and others don't.

 

[Frank E]

I think it's an interesting question, though somewhat arbitrary: clearly either would be a good choice.

I think it's the time to go with the "safe" choice though. Yes, while Laine is now being talked about as a possible #1 but a few scouts, he's also been slipping between 2/3. Matthews, until very recently, has been 1 and only 1 and all we have is one article where a reporter states that 2 of 10 scouts might have Laine as 1.

Go with the consensus: take Matthews. There should still be debate, obviously, but I'm confident Auston Matthews will be a Leaf.

I think a pretty good argument could be made that Winnipeg needs the centre more than the Leafs do.

Assuming they both kill it at the World's, what would it take in addition to their pick?

 

[Highlander]

Man, this is so hard, I love absolutly love Laine but Matthews is our biggest need right now.
What makes it so hard is SS is still only 26 and we know he wants to come home. I leave it to Hunter and the rest to figure it out and will happily live with whatever outcome happens.

 

[McGarnagle]

I remember listening to a protracted discussion on TSN radio involving past and former scouts about how Eichel could be considered ahead of McDavid due to his performance at the combine. I agree with whoever mentioned recency bias being a factor.

That said, I guess if Laine dramatically outperforms Matthews at the worlds, of course there'll be a lot more relevancy to the debate. It would certainly be a lot less second guessing if there was a clear consensus #1 that was playing for the knights in the OHL - right in hunter's wheelhouse. There's a lot of puts and takes in comparing performance in non-equivalent leagues.

 

[AvroArrow]

There is no debate - Matthews is the better player in the more important position.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

If Laine has a significantly better Worlds than Matthews, I suspect he'll become the top ranked guy on a lot of people's lists.

I think Matthews is going to be special, but there is something to be said for the year Laine has put together as well. Good regular season, World Jnrs, playoffs and then if he has a great World championship, it's hard to argue with someone rating him higher.

Personally, I'd take Matthews just because I think if the guys are comparable you take a centre every time. It's easier for a centre to move to the wing than vice versa.

I'm also fairly sure Marner is going to end up a winger.

My only reason for considering Laine is that he seems like a shoot first guy and I think most of the Leafs top guys right now are more keep the puck on their stick create and pass first guys.

 

[Bender]

Why do you say that about Marner?

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

My only reason for considering Laine is that he seems like a shoot first guy and I think most of the Leafs top guys right now are more keep the puck on their stick create and pass first guys.

Matthews is considered a shooting C.  His coach this past season, Marc Crawford, said he takes a lot of shots and would bet on him having the most SOG among rookies in his rookie season.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Why do you say that about Marner?

There was a lot of noise made about him being a center after the draft last year, about how he'd play this season at center.

Despite all that talk he played the vast majority of the year at wing. To me they'd have insisted he play center of they had been set in stone on the idea that he'd play center in the NHL.

From what I've seen and read he also played better as a winger.

 

[ZBBM]

Komarov ? Stamkos ? Kadri
Hyman ? Nylander ? Soshnikov
Leipsic ? Matthews -  Brown
Greening ? Laich ? Marner
Michalek - Leivo

Marincin - Rielly
Gardiner ? Zaitsev
Hunwick - Carrick
Harrington ? Loov - Corrado

Thanks Frank. I was thinking about how things would have to go if they get Stamkos. Kadri to the wing and the the 1c thru 3x just like you have them.

 

[Bullfrog]

Why do you say that about Marner?

Kadri, Matthews, Nylander. I don't think Marner's suited to being a 4th line center. Nylander could move to the wing I suppose; Kadri as well.

 

[Zee]

Why do you say that about Marner?

Kadri, Matthews, Nylander. I don't think Marner's suited to being a 4th line center. Nylander could move to the wing I suppose; Kadri as well.

I think Nylander and Marner can both move to the wing.

JVR-Matthews-Vesey
Marner-Kadri-Nylander
Hyman-Bozak-Komarov
Someone-Gauthier-Leipsic

Or some such combo

Or some such combo

 

[Bender]

Why do you say that about Marner?

There was a lot of noise made about him being a center after the draft last year, about how he'd play this season at center.

Despite all that talk he played the vast majority of the year at wing. To me they'd have insisted he play center of they had been set in stone on the idea that he'd play center in the NHL.

From what I've seen and read he also played better as a winger.

Wasn't he centering Tkachuk and Dvorak?

 

[Darryl]

You take Matthews. Don't get cold feet now.

 

[WhatIfGodWasALeaf]

Why do you say that about Marner?

There was a lot of noise made about him being a center after the draft last year, about how he'd play this season at center.

Despite all that talk he played the vast majority of the year at wing. To me they'd have insisted he play center of they had been set in stone on the idea that he'd play center in the NHL.

From what I've seen and read he also played better as a winger.

Wasn't he centering Tkachuk and Dvorak?

The games and highlights I saw had Dvorak in the middle the majority of the time.